Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 8th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

We'll now go to Ms. Idlout for her last two and a half minutes.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Qujannamiik, Iksivautaq.

I am not going to let you get away with keeping your salary a secret by giving it to us only in written form. According to the website, your annual salary is $3.91 million. According to websites as well, the annual salary for a cashier in Iqaluit is $37,000, so basically, your salary is 98 times higher than what your employees get, and that's what I want to leave with you. To give an example, the poverty rate in Nunavut is almost 40%. The food insecurity rate is 46%.

I am going to direct my questions to Gary and to Shelly.

The reason I wanted each of your airlines to appear before our committee is so that you can hear directly from retailers about what their challenges might be and so that you can be given the opportunity to tell us what solutions you can maybe try to help provide, understanding that some groceries, for example, in Kimmirut, might be in a cargo place in Iqaluit for so long that when they finally land in Kimmirut, they end up going from the airport to the dump.

I would like to give you guys this opportunity to find ways to give solutions so that groceries don't end up going from the airport to the dump.

[Shelly De Caria]

I can start with that.

[Witness spoke in Inuktitut]

[English]

Jean-Pierre mentioned that Canadian North does not fly into Kimmirut, and it is because of the lack of airport runways. It is way too short for us to land there. It can only be used for landing by a Twin Otter. The infrastructure that we're landing into was built in the Cold War. There has been no investment in the airports that we serve in the north.

We oftentimes cancel flights because of global warming, climate change. In January alone, we cancelled a few flights going into Pangnirtung because it was 4°C. Our runway was melting, and we could not land. That's two days of not delivering any passengers, medical patients or cargo.

Crew duty has been a huge impact on our operations because we could operate at six o'clock. The pilots want to operate, but they're unable to because of crew duty. That's 17,000 pounds of cargo that we could have moved in 2022 and 2021, which we're unable to today, including the passengers we have a backlog on because of the fact that we can't operate two flights a day.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Could you answer briefly, Mr. Bell? We are at the end of our time.

[Gary Bell]

I will answer briefly.

I appreciate the opportunity to respond to a really great question.

Our oldest piece of freight on hand today is three days old, and it's chips. We have a very sophisticated tracking system on our inventory. We make sure that the product is moved very quickly so that we don't have the waste that you're talking about.

We have warehouses in all the communities we deliver to so that, if we are recovering from weather disruptions, we can deliver 24-7 and put it in there. The co-op managers have the keys to our warehouses, so they can come and get it when it's convenient for them the next day.

Lastly, we have the system where we allow the movement of country foods throughout our network at no charge so that we can supplement what the stores are providing as well.

It's not to say that's a holistic solution, but it's a great start.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

We're out of time there.

Mr. McConnell, I know you didn't have a chance to make a comment. I don't know if you want to. We can leave it there, but I just want to give you the opportunity if you do want to.

[Dan McConnell]

That's okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

The time has gone by very quickly, so if there is anything from the conversation or any additional thoughts you have that you'd like to send to us in writing, I would invite you to do that.

I know that often members will have an additional question, so if you'd be open to it, we may gather some additional questions based on the conversation today that we could send to you. If you're able to provide a response, we would have it translated and distributed to our committee members. I'll see if the members have anything else they'd like to put, through our clerk, to our witnesses.

Mr. Carr.

[Ben Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Mr. Chair, I would kindly ask Mr. Bell to submit some information subsequent to the comment he made about the price he was referencing for a Winnipeg to Churchill flight and the increased cost. Churchill does not service nutrition north. It's not a community that is involved in that program. Beyond that, when we talk about northern communities, my understanding, Mr. Bell, unless I am mistaken, is that there is an exemption on aviation fuel taxes in the territories as well as between provinces. It would be beneficial to the members of the committee if you could provide us with the numbers, the information—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

We're getting [Inaudible—Editor].

[Ben Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Okay. No problem.

Mr. Bell, I'll follow up with you directly, but the committee will be asking for those numbers from you, to provide evidence and substantiate the comments you made.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Okay.

Thank you so much to our witnesses for making time to come and speak with us today. It has been a very informative discussion. I'm sure we could have spent more time, but we do have the minister here for the next hour.

Colleagues, we're going to suspend at this point. We'll take five minutes to get everybody set up, and then we'll resume with Minister Vandal.

We are now suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Welcome back, everyone. We are here for our second hour of questions and answers.

For our second hour on our nutrition north discussion, first of all I'd like to welcome Minister Dan Vandal, Minister of Northern Affairs, and also, from the Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs, Valerie Gideon, deputy minister, a familiar face at our committee. Welcome back. We also have Georgina Lloyd, assistant deputy minister of northern affairs, and Wayne Walsh, director general of the northern strategic policy branch, northern affairs.

I'm going to remind everybody who's here that if this is your first time since we made changes to the set-up in the room, we're asking people, when they are not using the earpieces, to leave them face down on the circles to try to prevent audio feedback for the protection of our interpreters, and to try to keep the earpieces away from the microphones.

With that, welcome, Minister. When you're ready, we'll give you your five minutes for the opening statement. We'll then move into our rounds of questions.

We should be able to get through two rounds of questions. One of the reminders I'd like to give to everybody is that we try to keep the questions and the answers kind of equal. If people are giving a long question, we'll give the Minister a long answer. We'll try to balance it out that way.

With that, Minister, it's over to you for your five-minute opening statement.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Minister of Northern Affairs]

Good evening, everybody. Bonjour.Kwe kwe. Ullukkut.

Thank you for inviting me to discuss and respond to your questions on food security in the north.

Northern and isolated communities are especially impacted by the higher costs of groceries, as food and other items have to travel long distances to get to their destination.

I am encouraged to be here today to discuss the federal government’s strategy to help address food security in the north and the Arctic, including the nutrition north Canada program and the ways we can all work together to make it work better.

Launched in 2011, nutrition north is aimed at helping northerners save on food and essential items. Since then, we have made significant investments to grow the program to better support northerners, always in collaboration with our northern partners and communities.

Since its inception in 2011, the annual investment in nutrition north has more than doubled, introducing expanded eligibility, new partnerships and a suite of other measures to better address food insecurity. In budget 2024, we’ve committed an additional $23.2 million for nutrition north’s subsidy program.

During my travel to northern communities, I have witnessed the high costs of food and spoken to community members about the impact this subsidy is having. There is room for improvement, but these subsidies are making a difference. This past February, the price of 18 large eggs in Kinngait, Nunavut, would have been $14 without the subsidy; instead, it was $7.99. In Igloolik, Nunavut, four litres of milk would have cost $42, compared to $5.69 with the subsidy.

These are meaningful decreases in price, but we know there is more work to do and the program can be improved. I am committed to ensuring that 100% of this subsidy is passed on to consumers and will continue to engage with our partners and different communities to always ensure that nutrition north is as effective as it can be.

We know that the subsidy alone isn’t enough to support food security in the north, so we have also created the harvesters support grant and the community food programs fund. It's important to note that these programs were co-developed with indigenous and northern partners to support culturally relevant harvesting and food-sharing practices in 112 communities in the north. We've heard from partners that the design of these initiatives is working and that they are a meaningful step to not only addressing food security but strengthening food sovereignty and collaboration between our government and northerners.

Since 2020, more than 15,000 harvesters have been supported, and over 700 new food-sharing initiatives and 410 community hunts and harvests have taken place. In Manitoba, two large hunts with 11 hunters took place in Barren Lands First Nation, which provided more than 100 households with one caribou each. To put that into perspective, that's between 175 and 200 pounds of meat, not to mention the leather, the fur and other pieces of a caribou that can be used. Wasagamack First Nation and St. Theresa Point First Nation each participated in 20 fishing derbies and shared their catch within their communities.

In budget 2024, we've allocated $101.1 million over the next three years to support the harvesters support grant and the community food programs fund so they can continue doing their good work.

Nutrition north is more than just a food subsidy program. It's also a harvesters support grant and a community food program. It is always evolving and seeking to improve programming by engaging directly with our northern communities. We have a nutrition north Canada advisory group, an indigenous working group, researchers and the Inuit-Crown food security working group. We are all working together to keep food on the tables of homes in the north and the Arctic.

We have started an internal review of the retail subsidy program, after which an external audit of the program will take place.

Additionally, with funding from the food security research grant portion of nutrition north, we are supporting five indigenous-led research projects that will inform program improvements as we move forward.

I'm looking forward to a very productive discussion, and I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you, Minister.

As we go through the discussion, I'll use my flashcards here, with the yellow card being “30 seconds left”, and red being “time's up”. You don't have to stop mid-sentence. Finish your thought, and then we'll move on to the next person.

First up, for six minutes, we're going to go to Mr. Zimmer.

When you're ready, Mr. Zimmer, the floor is yours.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for coming again.

We just heard from northern airline companies that the carbon tax has made fuel and food costs more expensive in the north. There's no question. We know that other forms of transporting food, by truck and by sealift, are also made more expensive by the carbon tax.

I'll quote from a recent article—

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

On a point of order, the interpretation is not working.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

We'll do a check to make sure the interpretation is working.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Interpretation is working well in French, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Okay, we're good.

Mr. Zimmer, we'll go back to you. I'll restart the clock. The floor is yours.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the minister for coming to committee once again.

We just heard from northern airline companies that the carbon tax has made fuel and food costs more expensive in the north. We know that other forms of transporting food, by truck or by sealift, cost more because of the carbon tax.

You were interviewed by Nunatsiaq News for an article published on April 20, 2024, entitled “Federal budget is about fairness says Northern Affairs minister”. You said, “we are helping to make life cost less, and we’re growing the economy in a way that’s shared for everybody in Canada. I think we have to make sure this is a budget that promotes fairness for all generations, especially young people living in the North and that’s where we’re going”.

My question for you, Minister, is this: Is paying $11.49 per kilogram or three dollars per apple fair?

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

First of all, you mentioned the fuel tax and the carbon tax on fuel. It's important to note that there is no price—

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

I'm sorry, Minister. It's a simple question. I asked you a question about fairness.