Procedure and House Affairs committee  No, I didn't say that's going to happen. I'm saying I would like to see the leaks stop. That's the reason I'm doing it. I think the leakers are probably playing on that distrust.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  No, I have no insight into whether the leaks are going to continue or whether they've stopped. I'm simply hoping they are. I'm simply saying the distrust that lots of Canadians are having in their institutions is creating a nobility among the leakers, which I disagree with. There's this whole idea that the leakers are whistle-blowers and are going to save the country from ruin.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  No.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Ultimately, if the answers were going to come from cabinet confidences or that type of email exchange, it would. I'm aware of the fact that there's a sensitivity, and that's why I'm saying, with a public inquiry, you can still have those in camera discussions or exchanges with the commissioner.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  That's a tough one. I don't have a legal background on it. I'm just speaking in terms of a public inquiry. There are precedents for public inquiries. We've had them on national security matters. That's why I don't feel like we're really reinventing the wheel. When you get into those issues of whether parliamentarians can demand those documents, you're asking the wrong person.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  That's the point. It looks to me—I mean, I wasn't part of the process—like the service was sending these reports routinely for quite some time and that there's an expectation that the policy-makers or the machinery of government have a strategy to deal with PRC foreign interference and would incorporate that into their decision.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  It's a good question. There are good vehicles. The thing with the parliamentary committees such as NSIRA and NSICOP is that their prime work—and they do excellent work—is to review the compliance of the collector agencies. They are hard-driven to focus on that, not so much focusing on the machinery of government and how they are handling things.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  When you look at inquiries, for example, the John Major inquiry, you talk about security and sensitivity of information. There were surveillance questions. There were intelligence officers, deputy ministers and former ambassadors. There was a whole smorgasbord of people who were questioned.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Let me address that, because I've had that experience, and I've spoken in the past to members of Parliament on this type of issue. When the service does these interviews, there's a certain amount they can disclose, like talking to you. I'm going to have to tell you who I am and then you're going to tell me things, so it's a bit of a back-and-forth of information getting.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I can't answer why, but I do feel that it's very important. I feel there's increasing distrust in Canada in terms of our democratic institutions. I was at the other committee on April 10, and if you had asked me then, I would have said, “No, we don't need a public inquiry; I don't think it's necessary,” and I'd come in with all sorts of security reasons for it.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Thanks for asking that, Mr. Turnbull, because I wouldn't want anyone to interpret my comments in any way in a partisan way, because I am the antithesis of that. That's why I don't want a vote in the House. I'm trying to avoid what would be a divisive vote. I raised the issue of these gaps, the email system and such in the context that we're hearing from the reviewer, Mr.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  It's not inspiring. The thing to appreciate is.... We talk about threat-related, and in this context, of course, it's a member of Parliament. With a lot of threat-related intelligence, whether it's dealing with terrorism or espionage, or things like that, there already is a drill.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Absolutely, yes.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Yes.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  That's exactly.... I mean what inference we want to draw from that is that you have all this sensitive reporting going into the system, which—and I'm quoting from the rapporteur's findings—is basically bobbing on a digital sea of computers. Maybe I'm being a little harsh, but it seems that there is a dearth of briefing up going on that you would expect would be done with various departments.