Bill C-10 (Historical)

Canada National Marine Conservation Areas Act

An Act respecting the national marine conservation areas of Canada

Canada National Marine Conservation Areas Act

[Sarmite Bulte, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the hon. member for Skeena:

Motion No. 3

That Bill C-10 in clause 7 be amended by replacing lines 38 to 41 on page 6 with the following:

(b) any agreements respecting the establishment of the area or reserve;

(c) the results of any assessments of mineral and energy resources undertaken; and

(d) an interim management plan that sets.

[Clifford Lincoln, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the history of our country is, in many regards, linked to exploration and development of marine resources on the Canadian coasts. Actually, our marine heritage is a reflection of our quality of life but it also reflects a good part of our literature, our songs and our art.

Parks Canada's national marine conservation areas program has several goals: to protect our marine environment, to conserve our marine heritage, to bring knowledge and pride to Canadians about this heritage, and to work with local communities to ensure that this very important legacy is passed on to future generations.

My comments today refer to Bill C-10, an act respecting the national marine conservation areas of Canada. Bill C-10 provides a framework for creating a network of national marine conservation areas, a network that will link Canadians to their marine heritage and to one another. There will be models of ecologically sustainable use. As such, marine conservation areas will also show us the way to our future.

I will also take time to speak to some of the main issues raised before the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

The purpose of the marine conservation areas program in 1995 was a reflection of the government's sea to sea to sea plan, which was developed in collaboration with marine scientists. The plan divided the Great Lakes and the country's Arctic, Atlantic and Pacific Oceans environments into 29 different marine regions.

It is the government's long term goal to establish national marine conservation areas that are a representative sampling of each marine region. These representative areas will include not only important parts of Canada's natural heritage but will also protect important areas and artifacts of Canada's cultural heritage.

Parks Canada has long years of experience in establishing and managing our special heritage places. I am referring of course to Canadian national parks, to our national historic sites, the historic canals and heritage rivers. The addition of national marine conservation areas to Canada's family of special places fills a significant gap since Canada's oceans and Great Lakes have always played a defining role in the country's economy, its culture and its identity.

At present, four of Canada's 29 marine regions are represented within the national conservation system. In 1987 the governments of Canada and Ontario signed a federal-provincial agreement to establish Canada's first marine conservation area, Fathom Five. It is representative of the Georgian Bay marine region in the Great Lakes which historically is known as the Cape Hurd islands area. These treacherous waters have claimed many ships. Now Fathom Five is preserving part of Canada's marine history. The wrecks of 21 known sail and steam vessels from the mid-19th century to the early 20th century lie within the boundaries of Fathom Five.

A 1988 agreement with the Government of British Columbia called for the establishment of Gwaii Haanas national marine conservation area reserve. Located at the southern end of the Queen Charlotte Islands, which is also known by its original name Haida Gwaii, it will represent both the Hecate Strait and the Queen Charlotte shelf marine regions.

More than one million sea birds nest along the coast with even more migratory birds passing through in the spring and the fall. Marine species range from abalone to grey whales, and their presence has enriched significantly the cultural heritage of the Haida.

In March 1997 four major oil companies agreed to transfer their offshore petroleum rights in the Gwaii Haanas marine area to the nature conservancy of Canada, which in turn surrendered them to the federal government. This process is an important step toward the designation of the site as a national marine conservation area reserve.

More recently the Government of British Columbia transferred its rights to the seabed within the boundaries of Gwaii Haanas to the federal government. However, before the area can be established, an interim management plan must be developed, including extensive local public consultations and negotiations with the Fisheries and Oceans Canada and the Haida.

The Saguenay-St. Lawrence marine park represents the St. Lawrence estuary marine region.

In large part, this park was created in response to public demand by the local population for the preservation of beluga whales that live in the magnificent marine area known as the Saguenay fjord.

The marine park in the Saguenay was created in 1988, as a joint initiative of the federal and provincial governments, by concurrent pieces of legislation, which opened the way to co-operative management by the federal government and the province of Quebec.

Canadians can now visit each of these special places and see for themselves what a rich and varied marine heritage we are all privileged to share. We must also be able to bring heritage to Canadians where they live, in schools, in discovery centres and via the Internet.

Work is also ongoing on a feasibility study for a national marine conservation area in Lake Superior in Ontario.

Finally, a federal-provincial memorandum of understanding is in place to assess the feasibility of a national marine conservation area in the southern Strait of Georgia in British Columbia.

The Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage worked extremely hard during this review of the bill. I would like to take this opportunity to thank all members who took part in the study. I also thank, very warmly, all members of all political parties who really played a very important part in reaching this stage of the bill.

We have made a big step forward in Bill C-10. I would like to endorse the bill and hope that its acceptance as a statute will come soon. It what is best for all Canadians. It is a statute of great importance for marine conservation areas in Canada.

[Mac Harb, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, let me speak on some of the benefits that would come to Canadians, from all the different parts of the country, with the establishment of a national marine conservation areas act.

It would provide increased protection for outstanding examples of Canada's Atlantic, Pacific and Arctic Oceans, as well as the Great Lakes. It would provide an opportunity to increase public awareness and understanding of Canada's rich natural and cultural marine heritage. It would provide an opportunity to promote and publicize Canada as a worldclass ecotourism destination. It would provide an opportunity to diversify the economies of remote coastal communities. It would provide better planning with respect to ecologically sustained use of marine resources. As well, it would provide a focus and support for long term scientific research and monitoring related to the marine environment.

My colleague from the Bloc Quebecois raised the issue of provincial jurisdiction by saying that problems will arise concerning the management of these issues.

I would say, particularly to the hon. member, that this legislation does not affect in any way the existing relationship between the provinces and the federal government. For example, if a province owns all or part of the submerged lands in a sector where Parks Canada proposes to create a marine conservation area, a federal-provincial agreement will have to be concluded in order to transfer the ownership of the submerged lands to the federal government. Without such an agreement, the marine area cannot be created.

This is how the issue will be managed.

In marine areas where there was a contested federal as well as provincial jurisdiction, there would always be consultation with the province concerned with a view to finding a mutually satisfactory resolution. The federal government does not intend in any way, shape or form to act unilaterally.

Moreover, that way, we can always solve the difficulties which could arise, one way or another.

Another issue was raised, this one about the native peoples. As regards existing aboriginal or treaty rights, several stakeholders recommended that a non-derogation provision be included in the bill. These rights being constitutionally protected, the government has the obligation to respect them, regardless of any law. Nonetheless, for greater certainty, such a provision has been included in this bill.

When the committee heard from witnesses, concerns were expressed that the bill limited the circumstances under which reserves could be created. As a result, the bill was amended to broaden its scope making it clear that reserves could be established in the maritimes, or British Columbia for example, where there are settlement processes for claims to aboriginal rights other than the comprehensive land claim process.

The witnesses also expressed concern with the fact that the bill requires an act of parliament to remove lands from a national marine conservation area yet there could be situations, such as court decisions pertaining to the title, that should be resolved in a more expedient manner.

As a result, the bill was amended to allow the governor in council to remove land from a marine conservation area by order in council if a court, for example, found that aboriginal titles existed and the title holder did not want the land to remain as part of the marine conservation area. Here again we have seen that the committee has responded to the wishes of witnesses in that particular area of concern.

There is another notion, which is the establishment of a marine conservation area. It has always been the government's intention that those national parks and national marine conservation areas would be established in the same manner. As such, Bill C-10 was amended to reflect changes made in the recently proclaimed National Parks Act and all changes affecting the establishment procedures adopted in this bill will also be reflected in that act.

With regard to management planning, the bill states that the management plan would be prepared within five years of the area being established. While the bill was in committee, it was suggested that five years was too long to wait. Coastal communities need greater certainty before an area is established. The bill was amended so that when a new proposal comes before parliament, along with the report on the objectives and management of the area, the report will also include an interim management plan. In addition, the report will outline the consultation held on any agreement reached with provinces and other departments.

A management advisory committee will be created for each marine conservation area to ensure that consultation with local stakeholders continues on an ongoing basis.

The management plans for each area must be reviewed at least every five years. Thus the government will take a learn by doing approach for every area.

In each marine conservation area, ongoing consultations will make it possible for Parks Canada staff to take advantage of the knowledge of local residents and the traditional ecological know-how of the coastal and aboriginal communities.

The question of zoning was also raised. I want to emphasize to my colleagues the importance of zoning as a powerful and flexible tool for managing use within a marine area. In each marine conservation area there would be multiple use zones where ecologically sustainable uses are encouraged, including fishing. There will also be zones where special protection is afforded to, for example, critical spawning grounds, cultural sites, whale calving areas and scientific research sites. These would be protected zones where resource use would not be permitted.

The bill was amended to clarify that all marine conservation areas would contain at least two types of zones. At the same time, enough flexibility is left in the bill to ensure that each area can have a zoning plan that is appropriate to its individual situation.

I can assure hon. members that the regulatory authorities already in place in this bill, particularly those relating to zoning, can be used to manage activities such as bottom trawling, on a case by case basis, in locations where the seabed is vulnerable.

Parks Canada will identify the location of protection zones and surrounding multiple use zones for each proposed national marine conservation area during the feasibility study for that area in full consultation with those directly affected.

Finally, on the consultation question, it should be noted that the consultation provision of the bill has been strengthened considerably. The proposed legislation now requires the minister to consult with stakeholders, which includes relevant provincial and federal agencies and ministries, affected coastal communities, aboriginal governments and organizations, bodies established under land claim agreements, and other persons and bodies as appropriate.

The list of matters on which ministers are required to consult has also been expanded to include the development of regulations as well as consultation on the establishment of any proposed national marine conservation.

In the course of the committee hearings, the committee spoke to witnesses who approached the bill from a very different perspective. Some clearly stated that the bill was too restrictive and unnecessarily focused on environmental protections. At the same time, others saw the bill as too weak and asked the committee to consider further blanket restrictions and prohibitions.

The committee was sensitive to the concerns of all parties. The amendments that have been made show the serious approach the government has taken to those concerns and how it has made an effort to make the required changes when possible and appropriate.

On the whole, I believe the government has taken a balanced approach to the bill. It is my hope that the House of Commons approves it.

[Jocelyne Girard-Bujold, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Oh yes, after Lévis. I am not so sure, but anyway.

So, these people took charge and called the attention of the two levels of government to their priorities. Together, they came to an agreement.

As we know the Saguenay—St. Lawrence marine park covers a very large area of several square kilometres. These people set up a co-ordination committee. They said “Since these jurisdictions could be shared between the two levels of government, we will call to task each government regarding their respective responsibilities”.

On April 1, 1990, after all these negotiations, the governments of Canada and Quebec signed the agreement establishing the 29th marine park.

Bill C-10 is about creating 28 marine conservation areas. But both groups of amendments before us tell the provinces “We are going to make the decisions. We are going to set a framework in place”. We are fed up with frameworks. I think we have quite enough of them in Canada.

I do not think any government member has read this agreement, or maybe a few did. I would have liked them to read it and then say “We are going to start from this, and, wherever we want to create a marine conservation area in Canada, we will use identical legislation and we will build on this instead of reinventing the wheel”.

With this bill, we are reinventing the wheel. I think there are more important issues we should be debating. On November 6, 2001, instead of discussing existing legal entities, we should start from there, and respect provincial jurisdictions.

That framework legislation was respectful of entities recognized in the Canadian constitution. It recognized the fact that the sea floor is under provincial jurisdiction. In that context, the Canadian government and the Quebec government could take action in their respective jurisdictions without interfering with one another.

Quebec contributed $11 million plus another $5 million, while Canada put up $9 million. In Saguenay—Lac-St-Jean, phase two has begun. It is working and we are moving forward.

I would like to congratulate my colleague from Quebec for her speech. I applaud her. She pursues this issue with a lot of determination. We cannot allow this government to interfere again in provincial jurisdictions, whether in Quebec, Ontario, the maritimes, the western provinces or British Columbia. Enough is enough. I think that it is time we talked about consultation. With this bill, the Canadian government is not talking about consultation.

They want a new structure. We would need money for all that. The profile of a marine park is very important. It defines the beauty of the area within the park. We should also take into account the priorities of the local population. This is not what this bill is doing; it is creating a top down structure.

The government does not know which bill to present. It does not have a legislative agenda. It brings old things back instead of taking what is on the table and starting from there.

Through our critic, the member for Québec, the Bloc Quebecois will once again be saying that we do not agree. We said that we did not agree with Bill C-48. And we will be saying that we do not agree with Bill C-10.

The Liberal member said that feasibility studies were going to be done. These have been done. We have a basic document. Why not build from there?

Submerged lands belong to the provinces. The framework agreement for the 25th marine park recognized this. Why must we keep fighting to have this government respect the constitution? They said submerged lands belonged to the provinces, they put it in writing and they signed. Why, this morning, must we debate a done deal?

The government thinks that the opposition parties do not realize we have already been down this path. Perhaps the Liberals have nothing to say so they are keeping us awake? All they want to do is interfere in provincial jurisdiction. What is going on here in the House right now is serious. Bill C-10 should never have seen the light of day. It should have stayed where it was.

During the 36th parliament, when this bill died on the order paper, I thought that the government would do some thinking, that officials would read the agreement already signed, that they would have done their homework. I see that the government is a real tower of Babel. No one knows what they are supposed to do. Everyone wants to grab a little bit of power which is not theirs by law.

Enough. I think that this bill should die on the order paper. The Bloc Quebecois will not give its approval to a bill which, once again, creates overlapping jurisdictions. This bill will allow the Minister of Canadian Heritage to create another structure and interfere in the work of other departments. The Department of the Environment and fisheries and oceans will be involved. Several departments are parties to these marine park agreements. The minister is giving herself the power to tell them what to do.

Imagine the confusion this bill will create within the Canadian government. We must see that public money goes elsewhere than into bills that are obsolete and unnecessary.

As the hon. member for Québec said, the Bloc Quebecois will be voting against this bill. And I hope that the majority of members in the House will do the same.

[Jocelyne Girard-Bujold, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to address Bill C-10 this morning.

I would have thought that the Liberal government, which sponsored Bill C-48 when I was the Bloc Quebecois critic on the environment, a bill similar to the legislation now before us, would have listened to opposition parties and heard what we said during the previous parliament.

Bill C-10 will result in duplication, and the federal government will take over jurisdictions that do not belong to it under the Constitution Act of 1867. This is a mixed bag of things other than what is targeted. The federal government is interfering through the involvement of the Minister of Canadian Heritage in areas that come under fisheries and oceans, and it creates new structures that are not needed.

In 1988, the governments of Quebec and Canada passed mirror legislation. I have a copy of the agreement creating the Saguenay—St. Lawrence marine park. That legislation was developed by the community.

At some point, people decided to do something about their environment. They got together and contacted the two levels of government. They told them “We want to work together to do something for our region”. In my opinion, the Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean and the St. Lawrence are the most beautiful regions of the country—

[Jim Abbott, Canadian Alliance, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Speaker, in speaking to the NDP motions it may be of value to look at the wording that party is proposing. The member for Windsor--St. Clair has proposed the following amendment:

4.(1) The purposes of this Act are:

(a) to create a system of representative marine conservation areas for the benefit, education and enjoyment of the people of Canada and the world; and

(b) to protect the ecological integrity of marine conservation areas and reserves.

His second motion is:

That Bill C-10, in Clause 4, be amended by replacing lines 30 to 36 on page 4 with the following:

(4) For the purpose of achieving ecologically sustainable use and protection of marine resources, marine conservation areas shall be divided into zones, which must include preservation zones that fully protect ecological processes, special features and all marine species that occur in these zones and may include natural environment zones that serve as buffer areas to preservation zones and conservation zones that foster and encourage ecologically sustainable use of marine resources.

What we have here, I suggest with the greatest respect to my NDP friends, is ideology versus practicality. Looking at the full intent of the law as it has been drafted by the government, all of the things the NDP has moved are more than covered. In fact, the NDP amendments create a redundancy in verbiage.

My friend from the Liberals who preceded me said that extraction of non-renewable resources is not sustainable. In the strictest meaning of the words, extraction of non-renewable resources, if those resources are being extracted, if they are not renewable, then clearly as my friend has said, it is not sustainable. At some point we are going to reach the end of those resources.

We also recognize that with the exception perhaps of wind power or hydro power generation, virtually everything we do as human beings is to consume some of the resources which were given to us by God himself. These are resources that we use hopefully in wiser and wiser ways. Certainly we are trying in every respect to ensure that we leave the world a better place, but to suggest that we could get along without the actual consumption of resources, with great respect to my friend, simply is not practical at all.

Referring specifically to the NDP motion, Bill C-10 is a framework. To try and confine even further within that framework any environmental or ecological imperatives is constraining the ability of human beings to have access to the resources that are at their fingertips.

One of the difficulties we as a party have had is that this is yet another layer. When individuals and those involved in natural resource extraction are exploring and looking for ways to continue to serve all of mankind with these resources, they find they are into layer upon layer. In Bill C-10 we not only have a new federal statute layered on top of other departments, but additionally, we have federal statutes layered on top of provincial statutes and provincial rules and regulations.

There is a difficulty at the moment for the province of British Columbia. The provincial NDP, the soulmates of the federal NDP, have gone through a process over the last 10 years of fundamentally, let us presume in good faith, lowering the ability of people to get to and to develop resources.

I will go off on a different angle for a second. In the province of British Columbia when the NDP government came to power there was a lot of responsible mineral exploration. We recognize that a lot of mines are being depleted or are running down due to world prices or whatever the case may be. The only way those projects the mining industry can continue in the province or in any area, is through further exploration.

As a result of the kind of motion our NDP friends have brought to the House, which reflects the kind of thought process the provincial NDP had, investment in mining exploration fundamentally has gone to zero. That is an absolute shame. It is a shame because in my constituency at the Sullivan mine, owned and run successfully by Cominco and its successors since the turn of the century, more lead zinc has been extracted from that one mine project than from any other lead zinc mine in the history of Canada. However it is now depleted.

The problem is we have not had exploration. If we do not have exploration, we end up with the problem that we will not have a mining industry tomorrow. What are the skilled miners in my constituency supposed to do? Within a very small community of only 500 people, as of December there will be 15 families looking at no more work. They will have to go to some other jurisdiction, probably outside Canada, in order to find employment. They are highly skilled people who are 45 to 55 years of age. Where will they go?

We see this kind of ideology. I say with the greatest respect to my NDP friends that they have a particular vision but I suggest it is a myopic vision. It is a myopic vision in that if we have the ideology of environmental protection at all costs to all exclusion, we end up with an employment problem, a resource problem, as well as a wealth generation problem.

For example, I note that today in the province of Ontario there will be an economic statement, if it has not come forward already. The premier told the people of this great province that the resources required even to do things like health care were going to be cut back.

My Liberal friends may have a difference of opinion over whether or not the premier should have done that. However, we come down to the same fact that if there is a slowdown in the economy, if there is a slowdown in the production of wealth, then there is no tax base from which to fund health care and other programs that are so essential to us here in Canada.

Clearly therefore, we will be voting against these motions. As I have suggested, the clauses are redundant. As a matter of principle, the further intrusion of more government rules and regulations to shut down the ability of people to responsibly be involved in resource development and resource extraction, is simply not going in the direction we need to go as a nation.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Bras D'Or—Cape Breton, NS]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians and their government have built a world renowned system of national parks for over 100 years. This parliament has the opportunity to set the stage for building a system of national marine conservation areas. Future generations of Canadians will be able to enjoy and appreciate the diversity of our magnificent marine environments as they now enjoy the outstanding natural areas in our parks.

The long term goal is to represent each of Canada's 29 marine regions in a national system of marine conservation areas, much as we would establish a national park in each of the 39 terrestrial natural regions of Canada. Each national marine conservation area like each national park should be an outstanding sample of the region it represents.

There is an assumption that national marine conservation areas will simply be national parks on water. This is not so. Maintenance of ecological integrity is the first priority when considering park zoning and visitor use in national parks. National parks are managed to remain essentially unaltered by human activity.

National marine conservation areas are designed to be models of sustainable use and the approach to management is one which balances protection and use. As a result we need legislation tailored to national marine conservation areas.

I will give a quick overview of the legislation indicating how it is designed to manage protected areas in the complex world that is our marine environment.

The bill establishes the legal and regulatory framework for creating and managing national marine conservation areas. It does not by itself create any specific areas. It provides a mechanism for formally establishing national marine conservation areas under the act.

Bill C-10 sets out an order in council process for the establishment in law of national marine conservation areas that is similar to the recently proclaimed Canada National Parks Act. The order in council process would speed up the scheduling of new areas. I assure the House that the supremacy of parliament remains.

The bill would require proposals to establish each new national marine conservation area to be tabled in both houses and referred to the appropriate standing committee for consideration. The order in council would not proceed should either house reject the establishment of the new area.

Bill C-10 requires federal ownership of all lands to be included in a national marine conservation area both above and below the water as is the case for our national parks. This ensures that the Minister of Canadian Heritage would have administration and control of these areas.

If a province owns all or part of the seabed in an area where Parks Canada proposes to establish a national marine conservation area, the province would have to agree to use those lands for an MCA. In marine areas where there is contested federal-provincial jurisdiction there would always be consultations with the province concerned. The federal government has no intention of acting unilaterally.

There is a clear requirement for public consultation with the establishment of any national marine conservation area with particular emphasis given to affected coastal communities. I emphasize that if there is no public support for the creation of a national marine conservation area in any given location, the proposal would not be brought forward to parliament. Parks Canada would look to another area with which to represent the marine region.

When the government decides to take the final step and formally establish a national marine conservation area parliament would have an opportunity to examine the proposal in detail and satisfy itself that there is broad community support.

Bill C-10 calls for active stakeholder participation in the formulation, review and implementation of management plans. The legislation provides for accountability to parliament through the tabling of management plans for each marine conservation area.

Coastal communities need certainty before an area is established. Therefore when a new proposal comes to parliament along with a report on consultations held and any agreements reached with provinces and other departments, there will also be an interim management plan. Management advisory committees will be created for each marine conservation area to ensure that consultation with local stakeholders is on an ongoing basis.

I would now like to address how Bill C-10 reflects the government's commitment to working with aboriginal peoples. The legislation includes provisions to establish reserves for national marine conservation areas. These are established when an area, or a portion of an area, is subject to a land claim by aboriginal people that has been accepted for negotiation by the Government of Canada. Reserves are managed as if they were national marine conservation areas but without prejudice to the settlement of the claim.

A non-derogation clause has been added regarding aboriginal and treaty rights. There is also a specific requirement in the legislation to consult with aboriginal governments and organizations and bodies established under land claim agreements.

Finally, the legislation explicitly recognizes traditional aboriginal ecological knowledge in carrying out research and monitoring studies in national marine conservation areas.

Certain activities are prohibited throughout all national marine conservation areas. The most important of these prohibitions concerns non-renewable resources, specifically minerals and oil and gas. Marine conservation areas are managed for sustainable use and by definition, extraction of non-renewable resources is not sustainable.

Other activities would be regulated through zoning. In each national marine conservation area there would be multiple use zones where ecologically sustainable uses are encouraged, including fishing. There will also be zones where protection is afforded to special features and sensitive elements of ecosystems. These would be protection zones where resource use is not permitted. These zones would be identified in full consultation with local stakeholders.

I would like to reiterate that Bill C-10 is framework legislation. It provides the tools needed to create national marine conservation areas and to manage each one in a way that is appropriate to its unique characteristics. I believe we have struck an appropriate balance between protection and sustainable use. Very few activities are completely prohibited but tools are available to regulate activities to ensure that the structure and function of each area's ecosystems are not compromised.

We have an obligation to consult affected communities during feasibility studies in the planning process and in preparing the applicable regulations. Each area will be unique. It will be unique in its characteristics and uniquely managed. A national marine conservation area in Georgian Bay will be distinct from one in the Beaufort Sea or one in the Strait of Georgia or one in the Bay of Fundy.

Canada needs this legislation so that outstanding examples of our country's natural and cultural marine heritage can be provided with long term protection and so that Canadians can learn more about and experience this shared heritage.

[Grant McNally, Canadian Alliance, Dewdney—Alouette, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to speak to Bill C-10. We worked on it extensively in committee. Members of the coalition have concerns about the bill but are generally supportive of the concept of putting in place marine conservation areas.

I begin by speaking to Motion Nos. 1 to 4 which we are debating at report stage. My friend from Windsor--St. Clair brought forth some good ideas in terms of protecting marine conservation areas even further than laid out in the bill.

Clause 4 of the bill already balances the environmental concerns along with economic sustainability of the areas. I am not sure that we would be able to support his amendment although we appreciate his intent to further protect these areas.

I also want to talk about Motion No. 3 of another friend in committee, the member for Skeena. I commend him for his hard work. He brought forward a number of amendments in committee and as a result the committee heard more witnesses who had real concerns about the bill, particularly from British Columbia. He did a good job and should be commended for that.

We did not get all the amendments we wanted in committee. However, as the Alliance, coalition or other parties, we did move the government in some respects on the bill which improved it. It is not a perfect bill but it does set up some marine conservation areas of which we are supportive.

Motion No. 3 proposed by the member for Skeena would amend Bill C-10 by adding after line 36 on page 4 the following:

(5) The Minister shall undertake a mineral exploration review and assessment study prior to establishing any marine conservation area. The results of the Minister's mineral exploration review and assessment study shall be included in the interim management plan for that proposed marine conservation area.

That is a very positive motion and we support it. It helps all parties to know that the government would not impose a marine conservation area in a particular place where there might be a high potential for oil and gas exploration. This is particularly important in our province of British Columbia where the current Liberal government is exploring the possibility of lifting a moratorium with regard to offshore exploration of oil and gas.

One of the main concerns that members shared in committee, particularly my friend from Skeena and I, was that the government might establish a marine conservation area in a unilateral fashion that may cut out coastal communities where these areas may be established for other purposes.

The government assured us that was not the intent of the legislation and it moved to amend some other clauses. Those amendments did not go far enough, but at the same time we put a level of trust in the government. It said that it was putting forward a process for establishing marine conservation areas that would include consultation with coastal communities. There would not be a backdoor implementation of a marine conservation area in a place where there might be a potential for oil and gas exploration.

The motion brought forward by the member for Skeena is one that would have the MERA report examine the feasibility of oil and gas in a particular area. It is the scientific study that would determine whether this could be done in a particular area. It would be included in the interim management plan and be tabled in the House so that all members could see it. It would not simply go to the minister for her to review and make the decision behind closed doors. It would be brought forward so that members of the heritage committee could examine it followed by an examination in the House, and then we could decide on whether to move ahead.

It builds another accountability mechanism into the bill which reflects the need for consultation with local communities. It would also alleviate the concerns and fears of communities that the government might act in a unilateral fashion by imposing a marine conservation area on a community. The fear is that it might try to put a marine conservation area in place where there are oil and gas exploration possibilities before a review is conducted.

It is a positive move that we should support. It would benefit the government by supporting the clause because it would go further in giving all of us in this place and all interested parties in this debate a message that the government would not impose a marine conservation area anywhere in the country where there may be other economic resource questions to be determined by local and provincial governments without first consulting extensively with coastal communities and affected groups. That would be a good thing and we are supportive of that.

I have talked a little longer than I wanted to on the motions. I will talk a bit about the bill a little later if I do not say everything now. Our concerns with the bill centre around the consultation process.

A big part of the concern has to do with clauses 5, 7 and 10 which were discussed in committee. The intent of clause 5 is that a marine conservation area would not be established without consulting widely with involved communities. That is a good thing. There are some who have concerns that the government may establish a marine conservation area and then through order in council at a later date expand that territory to create either an MCA or an enlargement of the particular area.

The intent of clause 7 is that even if a marine conservation area has been established, it must go through the same process of consultation, examination by committee and be brought forward to the House for debate and a vote before it can be enlarged. We are hoping that is the intent of the clause. That seems to be the letter of the law, but as we know it is the spirit of the law that will have impact on what happens with the bill.

It is our hope that the government will stick to the intent and spirit of the bill, which is to hold wide consultation with concerned groups, particularly coastal communities where marine conservation areas would be established prior to the establishment of these areas. Once they are established there should be no backdoor process of enlarging or expanding a marine conservation area without this consultative process. It seems clear in the bill that is the way it should be, but too often we have seen in this place that what should be is not necessarily what happens.

It is my hope that the government moves ahead on Motion No. 3 presented by my friend from Skeena because it is a positive motion which we will be supporting. It gives ear to further debate in this place and implements the bill in a positive consultative process.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak to Bill C-10. This is not a new bill; it follows two bills that were introduced in the House before that last election campaign, Bills C-8 and C-48.

At report stage, we can present amendments. The Bloc Quebecois has supported many proposals made by the government. The Bloc is not opposed to the protection of the environment, but rather to the way the federal government is acting in this matter.

We were against Bills C-8 and C-48 that were before the House before the election campaign, because they infringed provincial jurisdiction. The Bloc Quebecois proposed an amendment that it would have liked the government to accept. This amendment dealt with the protection of territories. The territory is either federal or provincial; as we know, the sea floor belongs to the provinces, according to the Constitution of 1867. The Bloc Quebecois opposes the principle of the transfer of these rights to the federal government.

Clause 10.1 was an irritant. While we were in favour of requiring negotiations with the provinces, it sets out consultations. This bill is weak when it comes to following through on the government's wishes, and history has taught us to be cautious. Members need only think of the millennium scholarships, and the whole issue of young offenders. The Bloc Quebecois will ensure that all of the necessary safeguards are in place to protect provincial jurisdictions and areas of responsibility.

The amendments moved by the New Democratic Party and the Canadian Alliance could be examined individually; they support the zones established to protect ecosystems. This is not the cause of our concern. My colleagues know this; I have already informed them.

There is the whole issue of overlap between different departments. There are three conservation zones: marine conservation areas, which come under canadian heritage; marine protection areas, the responsibility of fisheries and oceans, and marine reserves, which come under the Department of the Environment.

There will therefore be three different structures to complicate the situation. In the case of negotiations with local authorities or the provinces, there will obviously be a certain amount of confusion. The Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans was quite ineffectual in protecting marine areas, marine protection zones or marine reserves. There are several zones and there are three departments to manage the task.

Not only is there overlap within the federal level—and it is easy to see how this will create confusion—but there is also overlap in some provinces between Environment Canada and its provincial counterpart, such as in Quebec.

In Quebec, we have our own way of doing things. We proposed a number of amendments. We know that it is Quebec that established a memorandum of understanding with the federal government, which takes into consideration a master plan. This plan includes safeguards to protect the environment and ecosystems. Everything is in place.

This bill was not based on this approach, or if it was, it follows the federal government's centralist vision, the same way the government always does things.

Quebec had an innovative idea that made provision for jurisdictions. With this bill, the federal government is totally upsetting the approach of the Quebec government. It had proposed the master plan, and a law was enacted to protect a specific marine area, namely the Saguenay—St. Lawrence marine park.

My colleague, the member for Jonquière, who has often raised this matter in the House of Commons, is very familiar with the matter and knows what is involved in the law and the memorandum between the Government of Quebec and the federal government. A marine area was established in the Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean region where I come from.

This agreement provides very clearly that the area will not be transferred. It must not be assumed that Quebec will transfer the marine area, which is public land. The constitution provides that the provinces own crown land. This is therefore annoying. It would have been possible, with an agreement, to not go ahead with the land transfer. We would have liked this bill to incorporate the amendments proposed by the Bloc.

As people know, I am not the first to speak to this matter. My colleague from Portneuf is also a vigorous defender of Quebec's jurisdiction and of shared jurisdictions. He too spoke out against Bill C-8, Bill C-48, and now Bill C-10, saying we would not support it.

There are therefore a number of irritants. We also do not agree with extending the scope of the obligations of Canadian heritage. We know the Minister of Canadian Heritage goes in for propaganda a lot. Indeed, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Canadian Heritage was saying earlier that they would provide some education on the protection of marine areas. Education is a provincial matter.

Spending is another very subtle way of meddling in the jurisdictions of the provinces. I say spending, because when the government establishes a program, puts an infrastructure in place, we all know there are other officials working on it and setting up programs. The minister could simply say that she would prepare a fine kit for schools on the federal marine areas.

So there is overlapping. There is no agreement to extend the scope of Heritage Canada's obligations. There is also the complexity and inconsistency of the three departments. There is the centralizing goal. We have examples such as the Young Offenders Act, which is contrary to Quebec's legislation. I will come back to this later, since I will have the opportunity to rise several times today.

Thus, the Bloc Quebecois wanted an amendment that went much further to ensure that each marine area, for example, would be debated and negotiated separately. I know that we are not the only ones in the field who oppose the bill such as it is. I do not know how the other parties will vote, but there are several irritants.

We also know that marine areas often disrupt some ways of doing things in other Canadian regions. In the west, we are told that the local economy must be respected. Local economies must also be allowed to develop. Will this be inconsistent with marine areas? There are amendments that tell us we should really first investigate to determine whether a marine area can be established at a certain place. We are not against these amendments. We believe that some of them make sense. But there is more. We can imagine what the major irritant is and the whole underlying principle of this bill, that is that the government seeks to intrude into provincial jurisdictions.

[Sarmite Bulte, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, it is important for members of the House to understand what Bill C-10 is about. Bill C-10 would provide the framework for creating a network of national marine conservation areas that would link Canadians to their marine heritage and to each other. As models of ecologically sustainable use, marine conservation areas would show us the way to our future.

It is important to note that marine conservation areas are not parks on the water. As the member for Windsor--St. Clair mentioned, the purpose of national parks is to maintain ecological integrity. The principle of Bill C-10 is not ecological integrity. It is the balancing of protection with sustainable use.

I will talk about the issues that were looked at by the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage. The committee worked hard during its review of Bill C-10. I take this opportunity to thank members of the committee for their efforts.

The committee took a thoughtful approach to the proposed legislation. It provided a forum for a wide range of interests to come forward and comment on the bill. There was a lot of useful input from both the committee and the witnesses who appeared before it.

A number of issues were raised before the standing committee. I will turn to some of these issues which should address the amendments proposed by the hon. member for Windsor--St. Clair and the hon. critic from the Alliance.

Concerns have been expressed both in the House and in committee that provincial jurisdiction would in some way be infringed by Bill C-10. That it is absolutely not the case.

If a province owns all or part of the seabed in an area where Parks Canada proposes to establish a marine conservation area, a federal-provincial agreement would be required to transfer ownership to the federal government. Without such an agreement the proposed marine conservation area could not proceed. For greater certainty this requirement is specified in the bill.

In marine areas where jurisdiction over the seabed is disputed the federal government does not intend to act unilaterally. Let me make that perfectly clear. There would always be consultations with the province with a view to finding a mutually satisfactory resolution.

Members of parliament and witnesses have expressed concern that the national marine conservation areas program is a duplication of existing marine protected area programs and is therefore not needed. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Parks Canada's national marine conservation areas are part of a larger commitment by the government to establish a network of protected areas in Canada's oceans. Just as a variety of tools allow for a diverse protected areas network on land such as national parks, provincial parks, national wildlife areas and migratory bird sanctuaries, a similar set of tools is necessary to satisfy the wide range of needs and purposes in our complex marine environment.

While the Oceans Act provides the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans a leadership role in co-ordinating the development and implementation of a national system of marine protected areas, responsibility for establishing the system is shared among three federal agencies with mandated responsibilities to establish and create marine protected areas. The agencies are Parks Canada, Environment Canada, and the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

The result is a family of complementary marine protected area programs that contribute to a broader comprehensive system of marine protected areas and conserve and protect Canada's natural and cultural marine resources.

Within this family the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans establishes marine protected areas to protect and conserve critical fish and marine mammal habitats, endangered marine species, unique features and areas of high biological productivity or biodiversity.

The Minister of the Environment establishes national and marine wildlife areas to protect critical seabird habitats. The Minister of Canadian Heritage in turn oversees Parks Canada's program which serves a much broader objective. It is the only one of the three programs that recognizes the role Canada's oceans and great lakes have played in defining the country's economy, culture and identity.

Parks Canada will place a special emphasis on educating Canadians about their marine heritage and communicating its significance in all regions. This is a heritage conservation program ideally suited to the mandate of the Canadian heritage portfolio. Members will appreciate that each program has its own distinctive objectives and is an integral part of an overall co-ordinated federal approach to ocean management.

Several witnesses indicated that to better protect the marine environment there is a need to add more blanket prohibitions to the legislation and to manage for ecological integrity. The amendments proposed by the member for Windsor--St. Clair propose to do so.

The government's position is that more prohibitions included in this legislation would make it more difficult to gain support from local users. It would also make it less likely to adequately represent all Canadian marine regions within a system of national marine conservation areas.

Zoning is a particularly powerful and flexible tool for managing use. It ensures the protection of special features and sensitive ecosystems. It addresses the concerns of those who want to see additional prohibitions in the legislation.

Managing for ecological integrity is an approach which strives to protect ecosystems in a state essentially unaltered by human use. Ecological integrity is a first priority in managing national parks, but national marine conservation areas are not parks on water. They are meant to be models of ecologically sustainable use. The prime considerations in their management are the principles of ecosystem management and the precautionary principles.

Numerous concerns were expressed about the need for full and open public consultations at the local level when marine conservation areas are established. Bill C-10 includes a clear requirement for public consultation in the establishment of any national marine conservation area, with particular emphasis given to affected coastal communities.

The nature of these consultations is set out in Parks Canada policies. The national marine conservation area feasibility studies already launched by Parks Canada in areas such as Lake Superior illustrate this policy already in action. If there is no local support for the creation of a national marine conservation area in a given location then the proposal does not go forward to parliament.

Should an area be established, the proposed legislation would require the creation of a management advisory board to ensure that consultation with local stakeholders would continue on an ongoing basis for all aspects of the management planning.

We are engaged in a great undertaking with the establishment of a Canadian system of national marine conservation areas. Canada is well positioned to make a meaningful contribution to a global effort to establish representative systems of marine protected areas. Parks Canada is a key participant in its effort.

Members will recall that Bill C-10 is framework legislation. It provides the tools needed to create national marine conservation areas and to manage each one in a way that is appropriate to its unique characteristics.

National marine conservation areas are an important part of Canada's family of special places. They will be managed in a way that balances conservation and sustainable use and will be a model for conservation of the marine environment.

[Andy Burton, Canadian Alliance, Skeena, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I will speak briefly to the NDP amendments and then at some length to Motion No. 3 which is the Alliance amendment.

Regarding Motion No. 1 which would amend clause 4, we in my party believe the amendment is redundant. The purpose of the bill is already clear. Rewording it would not make the environment any safer.

The legislation as currently written is not balanced and does not deal fairly with the concerns of resource users. If anything, the bill needs to be strengthened on the side of resource users as opposed to further environmental protection, with all due respect to the environment.

Clause 2 serves to ensure that each marine conservation area would be divided into zones which would determine their specific uses. It would ensure that at least one zone allowed and encouraged ecological sustainable use within the MCA while at least one zone fully protected the ecosystem of the conservation area.

Although we would prefer the clause to state that each MCA would have set fishing zones and confirm that fishing be allowed in all MCAs, we can live with the clause as currently written.

The NDP amendment would only serve to reduce the already slim protection afforded to resource users of any marine conservation area. It would effectively eliminate any reference to ensuring that at least one zone is created with the MCA to allow for ecologically sustainable resource use. It would instead create natural environment zones to be used as buffers.

We are not against buffer zones within MCAs. Everyone knows fish do not live in walled communities. They swim freely wherever they want. Having buffer zones between no take and limited use zones might be helpful in the long run. However it is unfortunate that the NDP chose to remove assurances of at least one zone for ecologically sustainable resource use. If that is not included we cannot support the amendment.

Regarding Motion No. 4, the third amendment in the grouping, clause 9 as currently drafted deals with the management plans of an MCA, the review of those plans by the minister, what the primary consideration should be within those plans, how the plans affect the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans and how they affect land claims agreements.

It is well explained in the bill that to protect marine ecosystems and biodiversity primary consideration when developing a management plan must be given to the principles of ecosystem management and the precautionary principle.

The primary function of MCAs is to create a representative sampling of the marine environment within Canada. In so doing the primary consideration must be biodiversity since this is the reason the site was chosen in the first place.

As mentioned, Motion No. 1 of the NDP is a redundant amendment since the current clause would ensure that maintaining biodiversity within an MCA is the standard. It would serve only to further strengthen environmental protection in a bill that is all about environmental protection.

In our opinion the bill needs to be strengthened by allowing for more use of resources within MCAs rather than expanding already strong environmental protection. We will therefore not be able to support the NDP amendment.

The Alliance Party's Motion No. 3 is a proposed amendment to clause 4 of Bill C-10. The amendment would add a subclause 4(5). As currently written the bill contains no subclause 4(5). However clause 4 deals entirely with the creation of marine conservation areas and reserves. It sets out management use directives and details specific zones within the MCA.

Our rationale for the change is that Bill C-10 does not currently mention a departmental policy of carrying out a mineral exploration review and assessment study prior to creating an MCA. We would add the following to clause 4:

(5) The Minister shall undertake a mineral exploration review and assessment study prior to establishing any marine conservation area. The results of the Minister's mineral exploration review and assessment study shall be included in the interim management plan for that proposed marine conservation area.

The minister should request a study and its findings should assist him in determining how best to locate a marine conservation area. This is still policy but we would like to see it enshrined in the legislation. We are told by departmental officials that this is done to ensure MCAs are not created within areas of great natural resource potential unless it cannot be helped.

That is our concern. We must determine the potential for development of natural resources prior to establishing a marine conservation area. Once an MCA is in place whatever potential there may be is gone. We would not be able to explore or find out if anything is there. Let us do that first. Let us make it public. Let us put it on the table.

As was pointed out in the committee to departmental officials and the government's parliamentary secretary, policy direction from a department is ever changing. No one from the natural resources sector would take solace in knowing that current policy is to do a MERA study prior to creating an MCA.

Putting in law a requirement that the minister complete a MERA study and include the findings of the study in the interim management plan for an MCA would provide assurance that the results of the MERA would be made public and not hidden away in the department forever. That is the crux of our amendment.

Furthermore, once Bill C-10 is passed by the government, parliament would never see another piece of legislation dealing with the creation of an MCA. The bill would prevent that from happening. The only input parliamentarians and senators would have in the process of creating MCAs or amending their size and scope would be through the minister tabling an interim management plan in the House of Commons and in the other house which is not mentioned here.

Ensuring the MERA study is included in the interim management plan would give elected members of parliament what is hoped would be a fuller picture of the consequences on both sides of the issue of creating an MCA.

We are looking for balance. We support the concept of MCAs. However we must also remember the socioeconomic impacts on small communities in the province of British Columbia, for example, should MCAs limit or in some way prohibit fishing, aquaculture potential or the development of offshore oil and gas.

When given all the facts elected parliamentarians representing the concerns of their ridings make sound grounded decisions. Including this small amendment in a new subclause of clause 4 would in time serve to cement the current policy process of the department of heritage. It would ensure full disclosure for parliamentarians of whether the creation of MCAs may or may not be in the best interests of the coastal areas they would likely affect.

I ask the government to consider the amendment seriously. I hope it will support it.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—St. Clair, ON]

moved:

Motion No. 4

That Bill C-10, in Clause 9, be amended by replacing lines 24 to 27 on page 8 with the following:

“considerations of the Minister when considering all aspects of the management of national marine conservation areas shall be the maintenance or restoration of ecological integrity and the precautionary”

Mr. Speaker, thank you for your ruling and for the opportunity to speak to these amendments.

As indicated, it was difficult to move these in the committee as I was involved with the clause by clause debate regarding SARA, the endangered species legislation.

Several of these amendments are straightforward. Others, I believe, go to a fundamental flaw in the bill. The initial one is an amendment to subclause 4(1) which in effect is to create a purpose section to the proposed act. The reasoning behind that is that it does not have a specific section that deals with purpose.

I wish to speak more specifically to the concept of introducing ecological integrity into that clause in the bill

It is interesting that the bill is an extension or a companion legislation to the Parks Canada legislation. It has been interesting to watch the trend in the development over the last number of years as the concept of ecological integrity has been introduced into the Parks Canada legislation regulations and all the decision making that goes on around the development of our parks.

It appears to us that it is a glaring error that it is not incorporated into the legislation which is, as I said, a companion piece of legislation so that we will have a similar theme and concept in this legislation to deal with our marine parks as they are designated and developed.

With regard to the second amendment that is being proposed, which again is in subclause 4(4), in order to develop that ecological integrity and to be sound in terms of ecological sustainability, it is necessary for this amendment. That is what the subclause (4) amendment is designed to do. It must develop the zones and fully protect them in terms of their ecological processes.

I believe subsection 4(4), as it is now, does not fully reflect the intention of the drafters to establish these protected zones. In order to do that we require this enabling part of the legislation to give the government the authority to protect those zones from industrial and other uses. It uses the term right now as requiring only that special features in fragile ecosystems within these protected areas are fully protected. In order to really accomplish that we need this wording.

It was interesting to listen to some of the environmental groups that have looked at this. A number experts who appeared before the heritage committee argued and advocated on behalf of these types of changes and that they be specifically reflected in the legislation. I believe this amendment goes to that purpose.

My next proposed amendment is with regard to clause 9 which also deals with ecological integrity. I will just briefly read the amendment:

considerations of the Minister when considering all aspects of the management of national marine conservation areas shall be the maintenance or restoration of ecological integrity and the precautionary

It goes on to the principle, et cetera.

As I said earlier, the concept of ecological integrity should be fundamental to the bill. This is almost a consequential type of amendment that is required in order to allow the government in power at the time to carry out that role.

The precautionary principle has been debated. It has been misused at times in terms of what it is meant to accomplish. This wording is the closest to the precautionary principle that was enunciated in chapter 8 of the report from the Royal Society of Canada. It is key to effectively protecting, preserving and restoring the ecological integrity of environmentally sensitive areas. That is true in general. It is true specifically with regard to marine parks which we are dealing with at this point.

My next proposed amendment to the bill is to clause 12. With regard to this amendment and those in clause 13, they are the ones I believe are necessary for the bill to accomplish what the government should be trying to accomplish, although I am not convinced that it has gone anywhere near enough. Because of the way the sections are broken down, the amendment deals with what is prohibited and what will be permitted in marine park zones as they are established.

Right now very general and insufficient wording is used in order to protect these zones once they are established from incursion from other types of activities that will threaten, damage or perhaps destroy parts of these zones if they are allowed to proceed.

What the proposed amendment to clause 12 proposes is, first, that the prohibited activities of dredging or deposit of fill be added to it. There is some general wording around this elsewhere in the bill but it simply does not go far enough. We in the NDP are strongly advocating that we need that type of specific wording to protect these conservation areas.

The second proposal is that no blasting be allowed. This is particularly important from two aspects. The technology used for exploration and development of oil and gas and mining is blasting. Explosive devices are used as part of the process of discovering whether minerals, oil and gas, et cetera are in a certain area. The consequential part of that is that it is extremely damaging to mammals, whales and porpoises in particular, because of the sonar they use to guide themselves. Any type of explosive in those areas will cause wildlife to leave the area or it will severely damage the area.

Three amendments have been proposed to clause 13 dealing with activities again. The first one reads:

No person shall engage in fishing that involves the use of bottom trawling--

Some very interesting research was done this summer on the effect bottom trawling and dragging has had on the coral. Extensive research was done on the amount of coral in the waters on the east coast. If we permit bottom trawling and dragging to continue, it will destroy a good deal of the ecosystem.

The NDP is advocating in this amendment that there be no construction of oil or gas pipelines. As an add on to the blasting that I mentioned in clause 12, there will be no use of acoustic deterrent devices within a marine conservation area.

[Andy Burton, Canadian Alliance, Skeena, BC]

moved:

Motion No. 3

That Bill C-10, in Clause 4, be amended by adding after line 36 on page 4 the following:

“(5) The Minister shall undertake a mineral exploration review and assessment study prior to establishing any marine conservation area. The results of the Minister's mineral exploration review and assessment study shall be included in the interim management plan for that proposed marine conservation area.”

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—St. Clair, ON]

moved:

Motion No. 1

That Bill C-10, in Clause 4, be amended by replacing lines 10 to 15 on page 4 with the following:

“4. (1) The purposes of this Act are:

(a) to create a system of representative marine conservation areas for the benefit, education and enjoyment of the people of Canada and the world; and

(b) to protect the ecological integrity of marine conservation areas and reserves.”

Motion No. 2

That Bill C-10, in Clause 4, be amended by replacing lines 30 to 36 on page 4 with the following:

“(4) For the purpose of achieving ecologically sustainable use and protection of marine resources, marine conservation areas shall be divided into zones, which must include preservation zones that fully protect ecological processes, special features and all marine species that occur in these zones and may include natural environment zones that serve as buffer areas to preservation zones and conservation zones that foster and encourage ecologically sustainable use of marine resources.”

[The Speaker]

There are eight motions in amendment standing on the notice paper for the report stage of Bill C-10, an act respecting the national marine conservation areas of Canada. The Chair has some doubts regarding the desirability of selecting the motions standing in the name of the hon. member for Windsor--St. Clair, a member of the heritage committee that studied the bill. It appears that these motions could have been proposed in committee.

However, because (a) there are already two groups for debate, (b) the motions are relatively few and (c) the member maintains that he sits on two committees, both of which were seized with bills at the same time, and therefore had difficulty in moving his amendments, the Chair will give the benefit of the doubt to the member on this occasion.

Consequently, Motions Nos. 1 to 4 will be grouped for debate, but they will be voted on as follows:

Motions Nos. 1 to 4 will be voted on separately.

Motions Nos. 5 to 8 will be grouped for debate and voted on as follows: Motions Nos. 5 to 8 will be voted on separately.

I will now put Motions Nos. 1 to 4 to the House.