Bill C-25 (Historical)

Nunavut Planning and Project Assessment Act

An Act respecting land use planning and the assessment of ecosystemic and socio-economic impacts of projects in the Nunavut Settlement Area and making consequential amendments to other Acts

This enactment implements certain provisions of Articles 10 to 12 of the land claims agreement between the Inuit of the Nunavut Settlement Area and Her Majesty the Queen in right of Canada that was ratified, given effect and declared valid by the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement Act, which came into force on July 9, 1993.

[Michael Wernick]

The northern strategy is out in public. It has been a very useful framework. It's not, as they say, rocket science. There's an emphasis on economic and social development, an emphasis on environmental protection, an emphasis on our sovereignty, and an emphasis on governance and institutions.

We've seen progress in all of those areas. There has been a lot of focus on the economic action plan, as the previous question alluded to. There have been investments in social areas. There are the regulatory improvements in Bill C-25, which we hope you will get to debate fairly soon, and a lot of investments in science under the International Polar Year, the commitment to the research station, and so on.

My expectation next year is that there will be a lot of focus on regulatory change in the north to make sure that the development takes place and takes place in a sustainable manner. We'll see a lot of work in those areas and hopefully some progress on devolution to the Northwest Territories, perhaps Nunavut as well, and probably a range of initiatives across other government departments.

There are actually a lot of things that have been launched, like the research station, the Nanisivik facility, Cambridge Bay, and so on, where the main job the public service will have will be implementation.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

That's fine. If you can get back to us, it would be great.

This is going to be harder for you to answer, but I'm wondering about the Inuit bill, Bill C-25, which is actually mentioned in the minister's speech. From my understanding, when it came here in June or sometime, I think, it looked like there was unanimous support and you could put the thing through in a day. And it's still not.... Where is it? Can't you just get that done?

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

I was here last week, and I was before the Senate Standing Committee on Human Rights this week, so this is my third committee appearance since last week.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for inviting me to appear before the committee today.

This is, as you know, my second appearance before this committee, and while I'm happy to discuss the supplementary estimates (B) of my department, I'll also take this opportunity to touch on some important other issues.

In the four short months since my appointment as minister, we've seen some significant developments that underline the government's commitment to making real progress on the issues that matter to aboriginal peoples and northerners.

I was particularly proud that one my first actions as minister was to apologize for the relocation of Inuit from Inukjuak and Pond Inlet to Grise Fiord and Resolute Bay in the High Arctic in the 1950s, and for the hardship, suffering, and loss they experienced as a result of that relocation. Our government is working to renew our relationship with the Inuit, and to support social and economic development in the north as part of the northern strategy.

Also as part of the northern strategy, I was honoured to be in Cambridge Bay, Nunavut, with the Honourable Leona Aglukkaq, Minister of Health and minister responsible for the north, to announce the location of the new Canadian High Arctic Research Station in that community.

The Northern Strategy is, of course, only one component of our government's plan to improve the quality of life for aboriginal peoples and northerners. The main estimates, for the first time, included $61 million in funding for an important part of the government's Northern Strategy.

The Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency, CanNor, was created in August 2009 and is the first ever regional development agency for the north and the only federal agency headquartered in the north.

In little more than a year, CanNor has made great strides. The agency has established regional offices in all three territorial capitals and is developing its headquarters in Iqaluit in a new office facility being built by a local, Inuit-owned enterprise.

In May of this year, CanNor launched the Northern Projects Management Office, based in Yellowknife. This service works with the proponents of major development projects, federal departments, and regulators in the north to help improve the timeliness, predictability, and transparency of regulatory processes. It is a key part of the government's work to improve northern regulatory systems.

As you know, CanNor is the lead federal agency for the delivery of Canada's Economic Action Plan in the territories and its investments in the northern economy and northern communities have doubled as a consequence. To date, CanNor has supported 307 economic development projects in the north and has allocated over $66 million to strengthening the economies of the three territories. In this way, CanNor is not only fulfilling the vision of the government's Northern Strategy, but also is helping northerners and northern communities to manage the impacts of the global economic downturn.

The investments included in supplementary estimates (B) support this commitment and enable us to address our priorities. Take child and family services for example.

Earlier this year, the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs, Canada, and Manitoba negotiated a framework to improve on-reserve child and family services. Included in the estimates is $17.6 million, which is part of a five-year commitment of $177 million to implement the framework in Manitoba. As I explained when I appeared before this committee last week, a similar framework was completed three years ago in Alberta, and the preliminary results are very promising.

The key to success, I believe, has been working in partnership with first nations groups and provincial governments. Manitoba is the sixth jurisdiction to start implementing the new preventive approach. This government hopes to complete frameworks in the four remaining provinces by 2013.

Also included in the supplementary estimates is $295 million for the funding of awards to claimants resulting from the independent assessment process and alternative dispute resolution related to the Indian Residential Schools Settlement Agreement. The process is designed for former students who suffered serious physical or sexual abuse while attending an Indian residential school. The additional funds are needed because the number of claims filed and the average settlement per individual are higher than originally forecast.

Mr. Chairman, we are also working with first nations and provinces in the area of education.

As we all know, access to quality education is essential to long-term, sustainable improvement for communities, as well as personal success. Together, we've been working to ensure first nations children receive the education they require to prepare them for the future.

Since I've been minister, we've signed two more tripartite agreements with the provinces and first nations. There was a sub-regional agreement in Saskatchewan and another in Prince Edward Island. So there are now seven agreements in place across the country that give first nations communities greater control over education and, most importantly, first nations students a greater chance for success.

Settling claims is also important to ensuring that first nations have the resources they need to prosper. Through claim settlements, the relationship between Canada and first nations is strengthened, and first nations can access the lands and resources they need to allow their communities to prosper. For instance, in October, I was pleased to join community members to celebrate the final settlement of the Mississaugas of the New Credit First Nation's Brant Tract and Toronto Purchase specific claims.

Included in the supplementary estimates is the department's request to re-profile $308 million from the previous fiscal year to fund specific claims settlements. This amount was originally set aside for specific claims during the last two fiscal years but was never spent. Re-profiling this money makes it available to fund specific claims settlements in the current fiscal year.

These initiatives are but a few examples of the concrete actions that support the department's goal of improving the quality of life of aboriginal peoples and northerners.

Canada's economic action plan invested a total of $1.4 billion over two years in programs for aboriginal peoples. This includes programs and initiatives led by many government departments. Significant amounts are going to skills development and training programs for aboriginal peoples. Most of this investment, however, is going to infrastructure projects in first nations communities: water and waste-water treatment facilities, schools, and housing.

The provision of safe drinking water, the effective treatment of waste water, and the protection of sources of drinking water in first nations communities are critical to ensuring the health and safety of first nations people. The Government of Canada is committed to ensuring that significant progress is made in improving water conditions on reserves across Canada.

These investments are very much in keeping with our ongoing priorities. Furthermore, INAC currently has four bills before the House and Senate which seek to address these same priorities.

Bill S-11, the Safe Drinking Water for First Nations Act, will enable the Government of Canada to continue making tangible progress on its commitment to improving water conditions on reserve. This bill is currently being considered before the Senate.

Bill C-25, the Nunavut Planning and Project Assessment Act, will ensure clarity, consistency, and legal certainty with respect to land use planning and environmental assessment processes in Nunavut.

Bill S-4, the matrimonial real property act, proposes legislation to resolve the long-standing issue of on-reserve matrimonial real property.

Finally, Bill C-3, the Gender Equity in Indian Registration Act, is an important piece of legislation that provides for movement toward the elimination of discrimination in the Indian Act.

Mr. Chairman, this government recognizes that money alone cannot address the issues facing northerners and aboriginal peoples. This is why we continue to seek and expand partnerships with groups that share our larger goal of ensuring that all Canadians, regardless of where they live, can participate in and contribute to this country's prosperity.

Every specific claim settlement, every tripartite agreement on education and on child and family services, and every aboriginal employment training partnership program brings us one step closer to this goal. I'm confident that the investments included in the supplementary estimates will lead to further progress.

Thank you. I'll do my best to answer any questions that members of the committee might have.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Thank you very much.

My first question is for Mr. Connell. You mentioned Bill C-25, the NUPPAA legislation, and then you stated that it was a good start but that more streamlining is required. Could you give us a couple of examples of what you meant by that statement?

[Lawrence Connell]

Nunavut is an important component of the future well-being of Canada. There are significant mineral resources in this area that have been discovered and delineated, and they're awaiting the next economic upturn in metal prices to become the next generation of Canadian mines. These new mines will yield wealth for Canada as a nation, and under the right conditions could help Nunavut to grow out of its current economic dependency upon the federal government to become a net contributor to the future economic well-being of our country.

Development of our northern resources is also the fastest and surest way for Canada to solidify its claim to sovereignty over our Arctic region. AEM is a believer in the future mineral potential of Nunavut, in particular the Kivalliq region, and has invested close to $1.5 billion since 2006 to develop the Meadowbank Gold Mine near Baker Lake. The mine started production in February 2010 and has created close to 600 new permanent well-paying jobs. The company currently employs over 175 local Nunavummiut, which is 35% of our current workforce. This one mining project alone will generate an annual revenue equivalent to 35% of the current Government of Nunavut budget and will create annual operating expenditures of over $100 million for a minimum expected mine life of ten years. That's a total of $500 million in payroll, income, and mining taxes.

To be brief, we suggest that the major barriers to economic development in Nunavut are a lack of strategic infrastructure, specifically in the area of access, transportation, and electrical power. The mining industry relies upon transportation links to get its products to market and its operating supplies in. The high cost of transportation in the north is currently a significant economic disincentive to doing business in Nunavut. It is a significant factor in the high cost of living faced by northern residents and Nunavummiut in particular. It contributes to the poor standard of living seen across Nunavut and is an obstacle to creating a sustainable economy in the territory.

The mining industry will contribute to the development of the infrastructure needed to develop these mineral resources of Nunavut, but it cannot do the job alone. The federal and territorial government have to take a leadership role in supporting development of the infrastructure needed to increase the pace of this development. The problem is that the needs are great and the availability of cash limited, so how do we prioritize where to invest to obtain the greatest return to the people of Canada?

In our opinion, the focus should be on infrastructure initiatives that reduce the cost of living in Nunavut. This will also reduce the cost of doing business in the north and set the stage for the creation of a sustainable northern economy in which reliance on the south can be reduced. Northerners want to be in control of their own future, but at the moment they cannot see the way to bring this dream to reality.

What type of infrastructure will do this? We see it as an investment in strategic deep-water ports in the north to reduce the cost of transportation, strategically placed access roads that will allow for the distribution of goods and services across the territory, and investment in power generation in areas where reducing the cost of power will trigger industrial development.

The second point is the shortage of a skilled workforce in Nunavut. Nunavut needs a priority investment in its human capital to ensure that Nunavummiut have the ability in this generation to fully participate in the mineral development that is beginning to occur in the Kivalliq region. The people of Nunavut currently do not have the array of skills needed to fully participate in the development occurring on their land. The majority of the skilled workforce are still coming from southern Canada. This trend needs to be reversed for the north to become economically sustainable. We could also significantly reduce our costs of doing business at Meadowbank if we could source more of our workforce in the communities nearest to the mine. It is expensive to move a large workforce between southern Canada and Meadowbank every two weeks.

The federal and territorial governments should work with industry in an accelerated fashion to ensure that the people of Nunavut benefit from this mineral development in their backyard. The time is now for large-scale investment in adult skills training that is designed to get Nunavummiut involved in the mineral development of this region so that within five years, as Nunavummiut gain the skills and experience to take on these roles, the number of southern workers coming north drops significantly. The diamond industry in the NWT has been trying to accomplish this for close to ten years, with limited success. It cannot be left to industry alone. To make significant progress, the federal and territorial government has to take a greater role. The economic returns are there. Increased employment will lead to increased taxes and less dependency on social programs. The spinoffs to the communities will start to build sustainable economies in the communities of Nunavut where mineral development occurs. It will also indirectly enhance project economics by reducing our indirect costs.

We need to focus on the 25- to 40-year-old Inuit adult population. The high unemployment rate and the long-term dependence on social assistance in this age group has had a serious impact on the self-esteem of Nunavummiut. The Inuit are a proud people and need our help to climb out of this long cycle of dependence. If we work with them, we will see a positive response that will lead to the growth of a sustainable middle class. As the adults gain their self-respect by becoming independent, they will provide the role models for the younger generation. The current status quo is just not working.

The third and last point I had was the complexity and uncertainty in the existing rules and procedures surrounding access to land for exploration, and in obtaining regulatory approval in authorizations to allow development to proceed. The rules and procedures governing access to land for exploration and the regulatory process are too complex and are not living up to the expectations of Nunavummiut. This complexity leads to high costs for both industry and government and leads to uncertainty in the outcome for both industry and Nunavummiut. We acknowledge the need to protect our environment and its natural resources in Nunavut and to do this with the equitable and meaningful involvement of all Nunavummiut, but the current process has become too cumbersome and needs to be fixed to better serve everyone. The reduction of duplication in these processes will also lead to lower costs and provide credibility in the process.

We acknowledge the recent first reading in the House of Commons of Bill C-25, the Nunavut Land Use Planning and Project Assessment Act. Industry supports the intent of this legislation, and it is a good start, but this act alone will not reduce the complexity of the process and it will not create the streamlining that we need in the process.

In summary, the economic future of Canada is aligned with the future economic well-being of Nunavut. The mineral industy has shown that Nunavut possesses world-class mineral resources. If the potential for actual mines is to be fully realized in this generation, however, strategic investment by the federal and territorial government is needed.

Those are the three points I've made: investment in human capital; investment in critical transportation that reduces cost of living and hence cost to business; and investment in community infrastructure to allow new northern small businesses to grow.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[Megan Leslie, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you all for your testimony. It's very much appreciated, and I'm very much on the same page as all of you with a lot of what you said.

First, to the Barreau du Québec, I see in your submission--the electronic version has hyperlinks, and unfortunately I didn't click on the hyperlink for one of your footnotes--you talk about your Bill C-25submissions:

We note also Parliament's desire to include in section 3 of the Act the notions of denunciation and deterrence. Serious studies have shown that using sentencing as a disincentive has no effect on criminality.

Then you referred to your Bill C-25 submission from 2008.

I'm assuming there would be a detailed list of studies in that document about denunciation and deterrence not working.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I was not talking about the tribunal, but the implementation of Bill C-25.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Yesterday, we were briefed on Bill C-25, An Act respecting land use planning and the assessment of ecosystemic and socio-economic impacts of projects in the Nunavut Settlement Area and making consequential amendments to other Acts. My colleague from the Yukon called it a good bill. I may not be willing to go that far, but it is not a bad bill since it was prepared in cooperation with the Inuit of Nunavut.

Perhaps I did not read the estimates correctly, but will funds be allocated to implement Bill C-25 if it is passed in the current session?

I did not see anything in the supplementary estimates.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Okay.

On Bill C-24 and Bill C-25--which you mentioned are coming up, and which are good bills, I think--in your discussions with your House leader, do you foresee us getting those through before Parliament closes down, or on the agenda?

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. And I'm glad to see that none of your committee members yelled “Debate” when you mentioned how the chair looked. I thought it was obviously a sign of respect for the chair.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I welcome this opportunity to bring committee members up to date on activities within my portfolio.

With me today are Michael Wernick, Deputy Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs Canada, and Nicole Jauvin, President of the Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency.

The main estimates before this committee reflect the resources we are asking Parliament to appropriate, to fulfill the many responsibilities of my mandate as minister. You mentioned that the other supplementaries are also included in this discussion. I'd be very pleased to answer questions on these estimates following my opening remarks.

However, I would like to first talk about the key issues on which I want to focus in the next 12 months. Many of these you will recognize as they are a continuation of our long-term agenda to make tangible improvements to the quality of life for aboriginal and northern peoples and communities. As the Speech from the Throne and budget 2010 reinforced, our government remains committed to building a stronger, healthier relationship with aboriginal people and to realizing the vast potential of Canada's north. We're focusing our efforts on achieving a real and measurable difference in the lives of aboriginal people and northerners.

And we are making steady progress.

A special acceleration of these efforts came from Canada's economic action plan. Our government earmarked $1.9 billion over two years for investment in aboriginal skills and training, in housing and infrastructure, and in support of the northern strategy. I've been pleased to table quarterly progress reports on these investments, most recently in March of this year. All these reports are available on my department's website.

As members of this committee will know, my mandate is a broad one. Today I would like to divide my remarks into two parts. Let me discuss aboriginal issues first. Our activities in the past are a good indication of where we intend to concentrate our efforts in the future.

We are pursuing a busy legislative agenda. For instance, I strongly encourage all parties to support Bill C-3. Without this important legislation, the key section of the Indian Act dealing with entitlement to registration will cease to have legal effect in British Columbia. This could have serious consequences. Approximately 3,000 people per year will be denied their basic right to register for Indian status and to access associated benefits if we don't pass that bill—as well as the many other thousands of people across the country who could access it as well.

Bill S-4, proposed legislation to resolve the longstanding issue of on-reserve matrimonial real property, is being considered in the Senate, and I will be speaking fairly soon in the Senate committee as well.

Bill C-24, introduced on May 12, proposes to facilitate the development of major commercial real estate on reserve land. I thank many committee members for speaking to me about that, and I appreciate your support for that bill.

Bill C-25, also introduced on May 12, would ensure clarity, consistency, and legal certainty with respect to land use, planning, and environmental processes in Nunavut.

Just yesterday we introduced Bill S-11, the safe drinking water for first nations act, which would enable the Government of Canada to continue making tangible progress on its commitment to improving water conditions on reserve.

I would like to thank the committee members for their work and encourage their cooperation and support in moving these important legislative initiatives forward.

We are also working hand in hand with aboriginal communities and the provinces and territories to reform and strengthen child and family services and education. Building on that, budget 2010 commits $53 million over two years to ensure further progress toward a prevention-based approach to child and family services for first nation children and parents.

It's obvious these investments are very necessary. The aboriginal population in Canada is young. It's growing. For example, the population of first nations on reserve has a higher proportion of youth under 24 than the population of Canada as a whole. Certainly, Inuit population growth is even higher.

An increasingly young population creates a growing demand for education, social development, and community infrastructure, and these vital investments play an important role in building strong communities and enabling aboriginal people to reach their full potential.

That's why budget 2010 provides $30 million over two years to support an implementation-ready tripartite K to 12 education agreement. I am pleased to report further progress to develop tripartite partnerships in education. In February, a memorandum of understanding was signed by the Assembly of Treaty Chiefs of Alberta, the Government of Alberta, and the Government of Canada, ensuring that first nations students receive comparable instruction and obtain comparable results whether the classroom is located on or off reserve.

Aboriginal leadership, including National Chief Shawn Atleo, has identified economic development as a key driver toward greater independence and self-reliance. This government agrees. Investments in economic development enable aboriginal people and northerners to achieve a better quality of life through economic participation built on strong foundations of governance, human capital, and infrastructure. After all, the best social policy is to create a strong economy.

In addition to expenditures for basic services, Indian and Northern Affairs Canada promotes economic development in aboriginal communities and business opportunities, both on and off reserve. My department also negotiates and oversees the implementation of comprehensive and specific claim settlements, including the implementation of practical forms of self-government.

Let me turn now to my northern mandate.

Our government is moving forward with the implementation of the northern strategy. We are making significant progress in creating a world-class high Arctic research station. Twenty partners across Canada's Arctic have seen their science and research facilities improved thanks to our Arctic research infrastructure fund.

Furthermore, we are actively reforming the northern regulatory regime to ensure that the resources in the region and their potential can be developed, while securing a better process to protect the environment. On May 3 I announced our government's action plan to improve the north's regulatory regimes, which builds on progress we have seen to date and takes important strides to make regulatory frameworks strong, effective, efficient, and predictable. We are working to give northerners a greater say over their own future and taking steps to pave the way to successful devolution.

Budget 2010 laid out our vision and investments under year two of Canada's economic action plan. Strategic investments valued at more than $100 million over two years will improve the business climate and address key health care challenges in the north.

Of course, one of the perpetual challenges of life in the north is access to healthy food. To help northerners meet this challenge, just last week I announced a new northern food retail subsidy program I call “Nutrition North”. This new program will make healthy food more accessible and affordable to people in isolated northern communities. Northerners helped us to design that. A lot of consultation went into this, and northerners will help oversee its implementation through an advisory board.

The main estimates for the first time include $61 million in funding for the Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency, or CanNor. CanNor was created in August 2009 and is the first-ever regional development agency for the north and the only federal agency headquartered in the north. Its specific mandate is to coordinate and deliver federal economic development activities tailored to the unique needs of northern Canada and is an important achievement of our northern strategy.

Mr. Chairman, with respect to our main estimates, the $7.3 billion that is allocated to programs and services at INAC reflects a net increase of about $367 million. That's a 5.3% increase over last year. With the addition of the supplementary estimates (A) for my department, tabled in the House on May 25, INAC's budget for 2010-11 will reach approximately $7.5 billion.

Mr. Chair, these expenditures reflect our government's commitment to address the essential needs of Métis, Inuit, first nations peoples and northerners.

The main estimates will advance these goals by taking timely, targeted action in areas such as housing, education, self-governance, and land claims. Working collaboratively with aboriginal people and northerners, these investments will make a difference and help secure a prosperous future.

I'm honoured that Prime Minister Harper has entrusted me with this important mandate, and I look forward to maintaining a very constructive relationship with your members as we continue to advance what I think is a very ambitious agenda both in Parliament and here in committee.

Thank you very much.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I would like to thank the Auditor General and, of course, Mr. Vaughan and the officials, for coming here on relatively short notice.

I found this to be an extremely important report. I want to thank you for focusing on this area. I have to say that I find some of the findings absolutely shocking given the scale of developments about to arise in the Northwest Territories. We've been going through the Mackenzie pipeline review now for about two decades, and now, as Mr. McGuinty referenced, there's the potential for offshore development.

I have to note in your report, Ms. Fraser, on page 21, the response of the department to recommendation 4.61, your recommendation on better monitoring of cumulative impact. The response by Indian Affairs, which is that “Should additional funding become available...”, we might do cumulative impact assessment, is one of the most stunning statements I've ever seen by the government, although I have to commend whatever officials had the honesty to write that. At least they're revealing exactly what the problem is.

Recently in the House, the Minister of Indian Affairs was asked questions about the capacity to respond to environmental issues in the north, and his response was that he's looking into the streamlining of approvals and reviews, including, as I understand it, the consolidation of water boards and so forth.

In keeping with the Speech from the Throne and the budget, which is calling for the streamlining of the regulation of resource development extraction in the north, we now have Bill C-25 on Nunavut that has been tabled. On cursory review, it's raising more concerns than solutions, I think, in regard to the report that you've addressed for the Northwest Territories.

It's hard to know where to start. I just want to thank you immensely for the report. I'm hoping that it provides a really good guide for the development of a proper framework.

One thing that I noted and that you, Ms. Fraser, pointed out, is the failure to deliver on what are actually constitutional obligations. These programs are mandated by a land claims agreement, which means they're constitutionally entrenched. It's not just a case of not living up to regulatory responsibility. I would be interested to hear from the two representatives from Indian Affairs and Environment Canada on that.

You've revealed today, Mr. Borbey, that there is somewhat of a program coming forward to respond to the failure to deliver on the north ecosystem initiative and the cumulative effects assessment management framework. Do you feel that $8 million over two years is adequate to actually deliver a cumulative impact assessment for the extent of the Northwest Territories right up to the polar region?

Do you think that's adequate when we compare it to the hundreds of millions of dollars the federal government has put into simply assessing where the potential is for extracting resources from the Arctic Ocean?

Nunavut Planning and Project Assessment Act

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

moved for leave to introduce Bill C-25, An Act respecting land use planning and the assessment of ecosystemic and socio-economic impacts of projects in the Nunavut Settlement Area and making consequential amendments to other Acts.

(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed)