Bill C-54 (Historical)

Not Criminally Responsible Reform Act

An Act to amend the Criminal Code and the National Defence Act (mental disorder)

This enactment amends the mental disorder regime in the Criminal Code and the National Defence Act to specify that the paramount consideration in the decision-making process is the safety of the public and to create a scheme for finding that certain persons who have been found not criminally responsible on account of mental disorder are high-risk accused. It also enhances the involvement of victims in the regime and makes procedural and technical amendments.

Bill C-54—Time Allocation Motion

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Mr. Speaker, again, victims can currently attend hearings and present victim impact statements when these matters are before the provincial review boards.

We want to go further than that. We want to make it explicit that the safety of victims, first of all, must be considered in the whole process and that individuals who want to be notified if and when these individuals are released or escorted into the community have that ability. It should not come as some sort of surprise if they see these individuals at a restaurant, downtown, at church or some other place where they were not expecting it.

We have to make sure that what we are doing aligns with those people who have been victimized and have done nothing wrong but have found themselves in the middle of this very difficult situation.

A major component of what we are doing is to better protect and illuminate and set out the rights victims have. Again, as I pointed out, it is consistent with what we have been doing with all our criminal legislation.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, for the past little while, government members have been asking questions about the content of the bill, which is what we were supposed to debate during the time that was just taken away from us.

This is the second time allocation vote already this afternoon. Apparently, the government is going to give us five hours for second reading, which is not very much considering how important this bill is. If the government truly believed its bill was appropriate and would have a positive effect on victims, it would understand that we need enough time to consider and debate this bill thoroughly.

Does the government really believe that this bill does enough to help victims? Does it believe the bill will achieve the stated objectives? We do not know.

We know how things go in committee with this government. It has a majority, so it will call whatever witnesses it wants, and they will say what it wants to hear. It will limit the number of witnesses the opposition can call. We also expect to see another time allocation motion at third reading.

I have never heard a single group ask the government to adopt motions quickly and undemocratically. How can this government justify systematically acting this way and refusing to listen to the opposition?

We deserve to be heard. After all, the opposition parties in the House represent 60% of Canadians. This government seems to forget that every time it introduces a bill.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there is one part on which I actually agree with the hon. member. She said that government MPs have been asking questions on the substance of the bill. That is wonderful. Again, this is the kind of input I have had over the last number of months. Every time I talk with my colleagues, they are worried about this whole issue and are very pleased that we are moving forward on it.

The hon. member said that she has not talked to any groups that are pushing forward with this. I would suggest that she sit down with victims groups. I have said this before to the NDP. If members want to hear an excellent analysis of these different pieces of legislation, I say that they should sit down with victims groups, as I have when I have gone across this country. They will tell you that we are on the right track with these initiatives and that a bill like this better protects victims. It is consistent with all of the other pieces of legislation. If they are looking for groups that like these government bills, I always say to start with victims. That is a good place to start and sometimes to end.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I just got it. I just had a total revelation.

The minister does not understand the concept of a time allocation motion. The issue is whether the government is right to move a time allocation motion. This is not the time to debate the substance of the bill.

Perhaps five hours of debate would have been enough, but the government is constantly imposing this way of operating on us here in the House. In the long run, it becomes fairly absurd and undemocratic. That is one reason why we feel it is important to debate the bill a little longer than the five hours allotted.

When the minister introduced his bill—one of the rare times he has done so—he used tons of statistics. However, according to a study in Blacklock's Reporter, they were not even the right statistics. Therefore, it would be good for us to have more time for debate.

In fact, after taking part in the debate myself, I realize that members of the House would be able to ask more questions. If they could, then when we receive the bill in committee, we would be readier to do our job and we would not have to engage again in preliminary debates before being able to discuss the bill in committee.

This is completely undemocratic. While the minister is bragging about being there for victims, in reality he is laying it on thick but not giving them what they want.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I agree with her that for the NDP, these things are always about procedures. I am very pleased with the fact that for government members, it is about the substance. It is about what is in the bills. That is what is important to them.

The member said that we are always pushing through our legislation. The government House leader has been very reasonable in terms of the debate. There has been a lot of debate. I believe that these debates often go until midnight. There is extra time now for members of Parliament to debate. They can argue about the procedure and talk about that forever, if they like, or at least until a vote on this matter.

I am glad so many government members are in the House this evening, because I appreciate the input they have given and their concern in this area. They are on the right track. I can tell them that.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is interesting to hear the minister talk about the NDP wanting to talk about procedures when we have a government motion that has been introduced to talk about procedures. We are actually debating the motion the government introduced about time allocation. That is what it is asking us to talk about right now, not the substance of the bill.

It was interesting to hear the minister talk about how his goal was to fulfill the promises that the Conservatives made during that last election campaign, and some of the promises we heard were about openness, transparency and accountability. I am glad to hear the applause from the other side, because it would be wonderful if they actually followed up on those promises about openness, transparency and accountability. I believe in most Canadians' minds that those elements are all included in fulsome debate around legislation that can have profound impact.

The minister mentioned that the Conservatives have had a full study of the bill. Yet we have seen other government bills that come before the House that require amendment. That is the purpose of having debate around bills, to have a fulsome study and have witnesses called.

We have seen the Conservatives shut down witness testimony at committee. I wonder if the minister could commit today to allow full debate at committee with a full slate of witnesses who represent both the opposition and the government members.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Mr. Speaker, obviously committees are in charge of their own agenda. I see my parliamentary secretary here and other members of that committee, and they have done an outstanding job in terms of moving forward on these important pieces of legislation.

The hon. member is right when she said what we talked about in the last election. We were very clear in the last election that we would move forward with all the bills that we could not get through because the NDP, the Liberals and their other friends wanted to talk forever on these things and did not want to move forward on them.

Bill C-10 is the bill that cracks down on people who sexually exploit children, that cracks down on drug dealers. We indicated to Canadians in the last election that we were coming forward with this and we would get it passed within 100 days. We were on the right track with that bill, and this is part of that agenda of moving forward, standing up for victims and--

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Questions, the hon. member for Essex.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, if we want to know where NDP members stand on a bill like Bill C-54, we should read all the speeches they have already given, because they are almost identical, speech after speech, the same rehashed talking points. What is the substantive point of moving the debate forward if they do not actually debate, they just read the same handful of talking points over and over again?

It is time to get on. We have heard plenty of what NDP members believe about this. They are on the wrong side of the issue on the substance of it, but it is time to get on with it. Let us get on to talking about this particular bill. We will hear the same handful of talking points again in the next few hours, I am sure about that.

Let us get on with it. What does the minister have to say about what NDP members will say over the next few hours?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

It is true, Mr. Speaker, that very often NDP members make the same point, the same arguments over and over again. To be fair, it is their right to do so. They can repeat themselves ad infinitum on these, but I think it is important for Canada that we move forward on these important pieces of legislation and get them enacted into law. This country is better off when we modernize the Criminal Code, increase justice efficiencies, when we hold offenders accountable for the crimes they have committed and when we better protect victims.

However, they can repeat the same arguments on all of these if they like. That is what democracy is all about. We obviously take a different approach.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we are now debating time allocation on the bill and the Conservative majority will get the time allocation they want. Whenever there is time allocation, the position I hold being a member of a party with one seat is that those of us in the backbenches over in this corner will not get any opportunity to participate in debate. Over and over again time allocation means that we do not get a speech on the key issues.

I am surprised the Minister of Justice believes the bill has been well received. I have seen from the experts in the area of mental health and the experts in criminal justice that there is no evidence whatsoever for the changes that are being proposed and that the bill needs a proper, full and thorough debate in this House.

I ask the Minister of Justice how he could miss the comments of Professor Anne Crocker, who did a report for his own department, and said, “I would say there’s no current evidence indicating the need for changing the way things are being done at the moment”.

Then she went on to say, “You wonder why you commission reports [referring to the Department of Justice] if you're not going to use them”.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we have actually commissioned a couple of reports and I referred to some of the statistics in the final report that was given to us in November 2012. Indeed, there was one from 2006 that underscored some of the challenges that we have.

The member asks who we have been listening to. I make no bones about it, we have been listening to victims. We meet with victims groups. I would give the member the same advice that I would given to the NDP on a hundred different occasions. Sit down with victims groups across this country. I know members are busy and have lots of things to do, they have a constituency to look after. Even if they are down to one seat, as the Green Party is, they can still make time for victims groups across this country. I think they will be very impressed. I believe once having sat down with victims groups, members will be very supportive of what this government is doing to better protect victims.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. This is a place of dignity. Every member in the House has a right to be here whether the minister likes it or not. I am not going to sit back and allow him to insult members who come here and have a right to be--

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

That is not really a point of order.

Questions, the hon. member for La Pointe-de-l'Île.