Afghanistan Committee on April 11th, 2022

[Safiullah Mohammad Zahed]

I have heard that Germany has evacuated a few families. Holland is trying to get some of the families out. It's all up to the government. What we have been told is that the government does not have any authority over Pakistan, or it does not accept the Taliban government. Then there are alternative ways, such as talking to Qatar, as my colleague mentioned. That's what other countries have been doing—getting in contact with Qataris because Qataris have good connections with the Taliban.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much, Mr. Zahed.

Mr. Sidhu, you time is up. Thank you.

We will go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for six minutes.

Please go ahead.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, I want to thank Mr. Zahed and Mr. Sayed for their incredible service to Canada. I also want to thank Ms. Reddy for the work she does on the ground.

I asked the previous panel's witnesses about the double standard we are currently seeing in response to humanitarian crises around the world. I'm grateful to Mr. O'Toole for asking questions about this earlier, reminding us of what was done in the past. It was very important that he point that out.

I'm interested in what's being done now compared to what's been done in response to other humanitarian crises. IRCC is responding differently to the crisis in Ukraine than it has to the crisis in Afghanistan. Similarly, IRCC's response to the crisis in Afghanistan differs from its response to the crisis in Syria in 2015. I recall that IRCC had allowed Syrians to provide their biometric data upon arrival in Canada, which saved a lot of time for people who were fleeing Syria. This data was collected by border services officers, and their union actually mentioned that these officers could help out with the current crisis in Ukraine.

Is there a double standard when it comes to the crisis in Afghanistan compared to other humanitarian crises around the world?

I'd like Mr. Sayed to respond first. Then I will go to the other two witnesses.

[Safiullah Mohammad Zahed]

Sayed, go ahead.

[Ahmad Shah Sayed]

I put this question back to the government. I ask exactly what you asked. I asked the government, I asked the IRCC, if our blood is different from the Ukrainians' or our lives are different from the Ukrainians'. Partially we do appreciate what the government is doing with the Ukrainians to save their lives. They are being human. We do appreciate that, but in the meantime do not lose track of us. We hope it will not lose track of us. Don't forget Afghanistan. Don't forget our families. Don't forget the families of those Afghan interpreters who worked with you side by side when you successfully did your mission. Don't forget about the Afghan families who the Taliban are now looking for. They are searching for our families, going door to door, and if they find any evidence that we worked with the Canadian Forces, they will destroy our lives. They will kidnap our families. One way or another, they will get our families out of the houses and we will disappear.

We do appreciate what exactly the government is doing with the Ukrainians, but we ask the government to at least do some facilitation for our families. The same thing goes for facilitation letters for our families to cross the border. Send those single journey travel documents to our families to cross the border, and the very important point is stop the politics. Don't play politics with us.

We are suffering from these politics. Our families are the victims of these politics, and we are tired of these wrong politics and we are tired of this wrong leadership.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Sayed.

Please note that I'm a young lawmaker. I have not been in Parliament for very long. I'm personally moved by everything you are telling me. Perhaps I'm still a little naive, but I feel it's possible to cut and paste what is being done in Ukraine and what was done for the Syrians and try to help our friends who, in addition, were by our side throughout the entire conflict in Afghanistan.

Mr. Zahed, I didn't hear your opinion on this issue. Would you like to make any comments?

[Safiullah Mohammad Zahed]

We never compare ourselves with other countries, and we appreciate what the government is doing for other countries, as with the Ukrainians. As I mentioned earlier, my own family has been affected, as well as being victims of the Russian war. My two uncles and two aunts were killed. I can feel their pain. We appreciate what's being done for Ukrainians.

The only thing is that every one of us is mentioning the same thing, that we want to be treated the same as those from other countries. Why was our process stopped immediately as the one for the Ukrainians' was started? There is no backup plan. There is no plan B or anything for us. Since January nothing has been done on our applications. In a matter of weeks thousands of Ukrainians with very minimal requirements were brought here to Canada and resettled. We have appreciated that and we do appreciate that, but at the same time, Afghanistan should not be forgotten as it has been.

For two or three weeks we have been meeting with the media and having hunger strikes, and still it hasn't worked. It hasn't touched the IRCC or Immigration yet. We were expecting them to at least show us that they are doing something, at least show us in one way or another, but instead they are updating their website, making it harder and harder for us to sponsor our families.

As of this morning when I was reading the website, they said that interpreters will have to pay their expenses when they arrive here, or for their travel, which has never been free, but we understand that. They can get a loan.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

I'm sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Zahed, and I'm sorry, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, but the time is up.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I'm sorry, Ms. Reddy. I will give you a chance to speak later.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Madam Kwan, for six minutes, please go ahead.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank our witnesses for their presentations and particularly thank the former Afghan interpreters for their service.

As I said to the previous panel, you are part of the Canadian military. There is no question about that, and at this juncture, the Canadian government needs to do what is right for you and your families by bringing them here to Canada expeditiously.

To that point, people have been stuck for more than six months. Over 300 families' applications have not been properly processed. Thirty-five per cent of those have received a file number but are still not here. Not one of them is here, and 65% of them have not even gotten a G number.

On the question of differential treatment, one of the measures the Canadian government has given to Ukrainian nationals is what is called a “single journey travel document”.

If your family members and others like them were to receive this single journey travel document from the Canadian government, would they be able to use that document to travel to a third country and then fly to Canada safely?

[Ahmad Shah Sayed]

Yes. If the government and the IRCC and the high commissions of Canada issued a single journey travel document with a facilitation letter that would facilitate our families, yes, that is possible. That's exactly what they did with the humanitarian program. That's exactly what they did for those in the Afghan nation that they are bringing right now. There are people coming out of Afghanistan with that single travel document.

That single travel document works as a temporary visa. If our families have that document, they can leave the airport and cross the border or board the airplane and go to other countries.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Zahed, because of the delay in processing by the Canadian government, family members have been stuck hiding from house to house and street to street. They are on the run. People's lives are in jeopardy. One of your brothers is now missing. Other families have also lost their loved ones.

Is it the case that the longer the Canadian government delays this process, the more family members will be lost? How big is the risk for them?

[Safiullah Mohammad Zahed]

It's huge. It's unthinkable. That's what we have been mentioning. The IRCC is keeping us busy with forms and all the screening and everything. We have no objection to any of the screening. The problem we have is that we do not have the time. Time is very limited for us. The more time that the IRCC spends on our applications, the closer the Taliban gets to our families. With their intelligence, their information and their sources, they're going to get to our families. In the meantime, our families....

Personally, I have 15 members living in one room because of the lack of money. I cannot send them money from here. I cannot even afford that much money. The government is asking for forms. They have to come back to their house at some point, if they 100% run out of money, and then it will be very easy for the Taliban to catch them. They're on the list. I mentioned earlier that my dad was shot by Taliban in 2013. I have had to move my family around since then, but not as much as these days. At that time we had government and we we had national forces all over the country, but right now we have nothing over there.

So yes, we think the IRCC is wasting time. They're keeping us busy with filling out all those forms and it's giving more time to Taliban to get to our families.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

We talked about waiving documentation requirements because it is impossible for people to produce those, especially for families who are worried that they might be caught by the Taliban with documents and absolutely be punished, and so are burning their documents. Are you calling for the Canadian government to waive the documentation requirements? Would your family members who have been supporting the Canadian military on our missions abroad be willing to vouch for your family members? Should that be sufficient for the government to accept, given the high-level security screening that you have already gone through? Once those family members of yours are safely here on Canadian soil, we can then go through the process of the paperwork.

Go ahead, Mr. Sayed, and then Mr. Zahed.

[Ahmad Shah Sayed]

Yes. We have all the documentation and all of the screenings from the national defence ministry. I have spoken with them. I have had a couple of meetings with the national defence ministry. They sent all the documents to the IRCC. If the IRCC and the government and the foreign affairs ministry are making excuses about the documentation, then that's why we're asking them not to bring our families directly to Canada but send them to a third country. Send them somewhere where they will be safe. At least send them somewhere where the Taliban will not kill them. Then start the process.

All this documentation, all the screening, all the security problems and whatever they are coming up with, the nonsense information they are sending to us, is just wasting our time. It's because of the game of politics. They are trying to take the credit based on our families. We are tired of these politics. We are tired of the extra information and the extra forms. They could have sent these forms six months ago. They are sending the forms now, and we have to wait another three months.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much, Madam Kwan. Your time is up.

We will now go to the second round. Without wasting any more time, I will go to my own member, the honourable Madam Findlay, for 150 seconds—two and a half minutes.

Please go ahead.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I won't waste too much time except to say that I'm honoured to hear your testimony today and I thank you for being here and for your service to our nation.

Mr. Zahed, you said, “We were there with the Canadian missions, so don't leave us hopeless.” You also say that your expectations are that the government will be “faithful”, “truthful” and “respectful”, all of which I agree with.

I would add another word: “realistic”. When I hear the testimony of both you and Mr. Sayed, that's what I think is in part lacking here, which means, as you've said, that there must be other political reasons or reasons unknown to the Canadian public as to why there are delays and why the volume of process.

Mr. Zahed, I think you were talking about 33 pages of documents and now another 16 more. You haven't spoken to people in six weeks and yet you and your family have 30 days. What kind of access on the ground does your family have to computers, Internet and cellphones? How realistic is this to be asking them to fill out all this kind of paperwork where they are now?

[Safiullah Mohammad Zahed]

At the moment, I have no idea where they are. At the time of the initial application, I had to arrange that they had to go to a café and then use public Internet. In those days, the Taliban were not as mixed into the society as they are now. Now, most of the stores, cafés and everything are mostly controlled by them, so I can't imagine now how to get hold of my brother or my mom or whomever. Mostly, my brother is helping me with these forms. I have to find ways when they call me. Then I have to fill out the forms here when asking them, because we have filled out some forms so that we can represent them and help them with filling out their forms.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Would you agree with me that it's almost impossible for your family members, far away from you, to access what they would need to do all this themselves?

[Safiullah Mohammad Zahed]

Definitely, a hundred per cent.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Sayed—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much, Madam Findlay. The time is up.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

That's not very much time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

I'm so sorry.