Evidence of meeting #44 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was corn.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Rod Scarlett  Executive Director, Canadian Honey Council
Bill Ferguson  Owner, Ferguson Apiaries
Davis Bryans  President, Munro Honey & Munro's Meadery
David Schuit  President, Saugeen Country Honey Inc.
Hendrika Schuit  Member, Saugeen Country Honey Inc.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

You're out of time.

Mr. Shipley, you have five minutes.

June 4th, 2012 / 4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Bev Shipley Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I thank the witnesses for being here.

Mr. Bryans, you talked about the number of bees lost, as did Mr. Schuit, and Mr. Ferguson, too. How do you replace those bees? How do you replace the queens?

Also, if you replace them, how do you know that they're not going to be in the same situation in terms of the product? You said it was systemic. Is it in the hive, or do you know that? You've done some testing. I wonder if you could take a quick shot at that to help us understand it.

4:10 p.m.

President, Munro Honey & Munro's Meadery

Davis Bryans

In my case, I'm not sure if it's in the hive. They tested the bees on the outside.

I lost probably 30% to 40% of the flying bees. That's like shooting the father and leaving the rest of the family at home and there's nobody to bring in anything for them to eat. That's basically what has happened. The bees are going to starve. There are still the nurse bees and the other bees in there. Now we're having to feed the bees to get them going. There were a lot of bees in the hives this year. We're hoping that we can work ourselves out of it.

In the case of Bill, his bees were directly contaminated. It sounds as if the spray went right over and got right into the hives. I'm hoping that didn't happen, but I have no proof.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Bev Shipley Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

I'm wondering two things. There is the EPA report. What are the American producers doing?

Mr. Scarlett, I'm wondering if you've had a conversation yet with the Canadian Honey Council about your dilemma in terms of trying to help deal with this. Has that happened, or at this stage are you trying to put your heads around what's happening?

4:10 p.m.

President, Munro Honey & Munro's Meadery

Davis Bryans

We've had more contact with the EPA than we've had with the Canadian Honey Council. The Americans want to talk to us. They're calling us asking us what's going on.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Bev Shipley Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

Have they had discussions with the plant breeders? The Americans would be a lot larger in terms of.... I'm wondering if they've yet had any discussion with the plant breeders of corn. They stack a number of issues within corn and the breeding of it. I'm wondering, have they had contact with the plant breeders about this concern? Does anyone know? Would you know that, Mr. Scarlett?

4:10 p.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Honey Council

Rod Scarlett

I do not.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Bev Shipley Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

Following a little bit on Mr. Valeriote's concern, the plant breeders need to understand that there's a big problem. I'm wondering what happened in Quebec after last year, where there was some documentation. What has happened in Quebec this year? Did they just plant the same corn? Have you heard anything from those producers?

4:15 p.m.

President, Munro Honey & Munro's Meadery

Davis Bryans

I just found out about Quebec over the last few days, so I haven't. They might still be planting. They must still be planting, so—

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Bev Shipley Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

I'm not sure. Some of my Quebec colleagues may know, but I think pretty much the corn is all in now. Likely the IP beans would not have any inoculant or any treatment on them. It may be another bean that is not IP that would have that, but I'm not sure.

4:15 p.m.

President, Saugeen Country Honey Inc.

David Schuit

My understanding is that they do have it. The gentleman I was talking to chose not to have the chemical on his seeds.

An amazing thing, too, is that my farm is certified organic and 90% of my hives are dead. How is that possible? My neighbour is organic. The guy across the road is organic. The farm to the left of me isn't. Behind the Beatty Saugeen River you have the bush. Several hundred acres there are planted in corn. East of me is planted in corn. I'm the centre of the organic, and my bees are dying.

We sent boxes of samples to the lab. It's ridiculous. They say to document it. We have so many pictures it's unbelievable.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Bev Shipley Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

Where did you send them, to what lab?

4:15 p.m.

President, Saugeen Country Honey Inc.

David Schuit

The federal.... They went to Guelph, and from Guelph they went to Ottawa, I think. Yes, they're federal inspectors.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Bev Shipley Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

Have you used any private labs to get, you could call it, a second opinion, or another avenue?

4:15 p.m.

President, Munro Honey & Munro's Meadery

Davis Bryans

We kind of have a problem with that because I think most of those private labs are owned by these big corporations that developed this product. That's what happening in the United States.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Bev Shipley Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

The independent labs? Are there not—

4:15 p.m.

President, Munro Honey & Munro's Meadery

Davis Bryans

Most of the labs are owned by Monsanto, Syngenta, Bayer. They're all owned by those companies so how are you going to get a fair assessment of it? You need a government-run one that's not connected with it.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Bev Shipley Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

When the folks from the U.S. are calling you, what are they doing in terms of testing? Is it the same over there in terms of their concern of having a private lab compared to the public government-run labs?

4:15 p.m.

President, Saugeen Country Honey Inc.

David Schuit

If I may say something, I understand that the biggest research lab in the United States has been bought out by Bayer. I would say that's a nice way for a fox to keep the hens in the house. It's sad.

This is why people told me, forget about it. Just quit beekeeping and get out of it. Just get out of it, Dave. These boys have too much money and you're just not going to succeed. So I am really surprised we're here today, I really am, Mr. Miller. I just appreciate your letting us come and tell you our troubles. I'm amazed, I really am.

I would appreciate it if you can follow up and help us.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Thank you very much.

We'll now move to Mr. Atamanenko, for five minutes.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Bev Shipley Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

Mr. Chair, Mr. Ferguson just has a quick comment.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Okay.

4:15 p.m.

Owner, Ferguson Apiaries

Bill Ferguson

I just have a quick comment about the poison that is on soybeans. We have an instance where the farmer was putting it in his seeder and spilled some and he doesn't have any pigeons on his farm anymore. That's the end of them. So the stuff is fairly potent not only to insects but to warm-blooded animals, too.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Thank you.

Mr. Atamanenko, for five minutes.

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Alex Atamanenko NDP British Columbia Southern Interior, BC

Thanks to all of you for coming here.

Also, a special thanks to you, Larry, for making this possible.

I've been on this committee for over six years now and I haven't really heard many more gut-wrenching stories than what you folks are saying today. Clearly this is serious. This is a crisis situation.

Based just on what you folks are saying, we need some kind of a stop or a moratorium until we can independently assess what's going on here. Obviously there appears to be a correlation between the planting of corn and the dead bees, from what you're saying. So there needs to be something undertaken quickly and not just a study put on a shelf somewhere.

I know that nine years ago the U.S. EPA scientists demanded a field study on the potential harm of clothianidin to honeybees. They still don't have action. As a matter of fact, now there are one million Americans filing a legal petition to try to get some action there.

But I just want to see if I understand correctly. This is what I have from this document.

Neonicotinoids are systemic pesticides in which the insecticide is first applied as a seed-coating at planting; the poison is taken up inside the growing plant, perfusing the entire structure of leaves, stem, flower and fruit; it is also expressed in the pollen and nectar. Bees are poisoned as they harvest the pollen and nectar to take back to the hive.

That would happen later. But what you're saying, and also here in recent research in a journal it says that, “the threat of these pesticides through a previously undocumented exposure”—that is the seed planter exhaust, which could explain why this is happening—“the mixture of waste-talc-dust and pesticide which is accidentally expelled into the air as automated planters place neonicotinoid-treated seeds into the ground.”

If that's true, that would be the reason, obviously, why the bees would be dying.

I would just like to have some further comments from you folks on what you feel, specifically, we should be doing. It seems to me we should be placing an immediate moratorium on these chemicals until we get to the bottom of this.

Mr. Ferguson, if you don't mind, I'll start with you and we'll just work our way along for the remaining time. Thank you.