Evidence of meeting #15 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cars.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Tim Heney  Chief Executive Officer, Thunder Bay Port Authority
Lynn Jacobson  President, Alberta Federation of Agriculture
Robert Chapman  Grain Manager, South West Terminal, Inland Terminal Association of Canada
Humphrey Banack  Second Vice-President, Alberta Federation of Agriculture
David Miller  Assistant Vice-President, Government Affairs, Canadian National Railway Company
Michael Murphy  Vice-President, Government Affairs, Canadian Pacific Railway
Robert Taylor  Director, Government Affairs, Canadian Pacific Railway

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

I'd like to call the meeting to order. This is meeting number 15, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) a study on the grain logistics system in Canada.

I want to welcome our witnesses that we have from 3:30 to 4:00 today. It is a bit of a compressed time. We have chatted with them. We have them on video conference.

From the Thunder Bay Port Authority we have Tim Heney, chief executive officer.

By video conference from Alberta Federation of Agriculture from Taber, Alberta, we have Lynn Jacobson, president, and Humphrey Banack, second vice-president.

By video conference from Swift Current, Saskatchewan, we have Inland Terminal Association of Canada, Robert Chapman, grain manager, South West Terminal.

I believe we have by video conference with us, first of all, from Thunder Bay Port Authority, Mr. Tim Heney, CEO. Is that correct?

Can you hear us okay?

3:30 p.m.

Tim Heney Chief Executive Officer, Thunder Bay Port Authority

Yes, I can hear you. Can you hear me?

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

We've asked the witnesses if they would give us a five-minute opening. What that means is that we keep the times tight, folks, and we'll get around for one round for the groups in terms of the first round.

Mr. Heney, please go ahead, for five minutes.

3:30 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Thunder Bay Port Authority

Tim Heney

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

On behalf of the Thunder Bay Port Authority, I would like to thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today.

The Port of Thunder Bay is western Canada's entry point to the St. Lawrence Seaway system and 95% of the cargo handled at the port originates in western Canada, of which over 75% is grain. Thunder Bay currently ranks as the ninth largest of 19 Canadian port authorities, shipping an average of 7.5 million tonnes annually.

It is the second-largest Canadian port on the Great Lakes, and we have the distinction of being the largest export port on the seaway with over 85% of our shipments travelling the entire system for export to Europe, North Africa, and Latin America. The port also serves domestic markets in eastern Canada and U.S. markets around the Great Lakes.

The St. Lawrence Seaway is the world's largest inland waterway and was built to provide direct access to European markets for the western Canadian farmer. Currently over $2 billion is being invested in the system, including $1 billion in new vessels following the removal of the 25% import duty on foreign-built ships.

While the use of ocean vessels at the port increased last season, the time has come for a review of regulatory costs imposed on the system, including tolls, pilotage, marine services, and ice-breaking fees. These costs have grown to over $135,000 per voyage for an ocean vessel travelling to Thunder Bay and are eroding the competitiveness of the seaway at a time when grain shipments through Churchill are being subsidized.

Thunder Bay currently has eight operating grain elevators with a combined grain storage capacity of 1.2 million metric tonnes, the largest in North America.

The port has the fastest ship turnaround time of any western Canadian port as well as an improved railcar cycle time, which has improved 36% over the last 10 years, bringing us to one of the fastest turnaround times in western Canada. James Richardson, Viterra, Cargill, P & H, Canada Malting, the Canadian Wheat Board, Western Grain, and MobilEx operate grain facilities at the port.

In January of this year the Wheat Board purchased facilities in Thunder Bay and Trois-Rivières, a major vote of confidence in the St. Lawrence export corridor.

Thunder Bay is served by both CP and CN. Our grain shipments last season were lower than in 2012. A slow spring and fall were followed by an average November and December. Car unloads this crop year were average and we have not as yet experienced the surge relating to the record harvest.

The past shipping season was the first full year following the removal of the Canadian Wheat Board monopoly. Shipping the majority of the wheat and barley is now controlled by companies with facilities in the port, and with the exception of Richardson's, all of the other terminals experienced reduced shipments in 2013.

The Port of Thunder Bay stands ready to accommodate last year's record harvest with the largest grain storage in North America and a grain handling capacity of over 18 million tonnes. Manitoba country storage is at a record with over 100% capacity as the spring flooding season approaches.

With that, I'll end my remarks.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Thank you very much for your conciseness.

We're going to make sure we get everybody coming up here. I'll now move to the Alberta Federation of Agriculture from Taber, Alberta. We have Lynn Jacobson, president, and Humphrey Banack, second vice-president.

Welcome to our study. Thank you for coming. You have five minutes.

3:35 p.m.

Lynn Jacobson President, Alberta Federation of Agriculture

Hello. My name is Lynn Jacobson and I'm president of the Alberta Federation of Agriculture. I farm in Enchant, which is in southern Alberta. I raise wheat, pulses, and canola. We do canola seed production and also some alfalfa seed production.

I'm speaking today on behalf of the Alberta Federation of Agriculture, our province's only general farm organization. Our members are involved in all aspects of agriculture production. We also work closely with other western general farm organizations on problems that affect all of western Canada's agricultural producers.

I'd like to thank the committee for this opportunity to provide comments on the very serious problem western Canadian farmers are facing shipping their grain and oilseed production this winter. From our perspective, the single largest problem we are facing is inadequate rail service. Western Canada produced a record crop in 2013, totalling some 90 million tonnes of grain, oilseeds, and pulses, close to 30% more than was harvested in 2012. While we enjoyed good growing conditions last year, this bumper crop was also due to new technologies, better crop protection, and higher yielding varieties. In other words, we view an increased level of crop production as a new normal in the prairie provinces now and into the future.

Grain producers, governments of all levels, and industry players have all invested in research priorities that will provide producers and the industry with access to varieties and processes that will increase production across Canada in the future. Without reliable access to overseas markets, these investments will be largely underutilized.

As a result of these investments and growing world demand, the current problems grain producers face will only get bigger if there isn't an immediate and permanent solution to fix the shortfall in Canada's grain transportation system. This is the situation we currently face. Last year's crop of 90 million tonnes compares to an average of 50.8 million tonnes. If things do not improve this year, we will have a 22-million tonne carry-over in 2014. As a comparison, the normal carry-over for a given year is eight million tonnes.

With this huge amount of grain stockpile and if the transportation system isn't fixed immediately, even producing an average crop in 2014 would still have a negative effect on the market as Canada absorbs only about 20 million tonnes of grain a year and the rest must be exported. The inability to move this volume of grain is having a detrimental effect on pricing, and the potential losses for prairie farmers are huge. Based on StatsCan's most recent production figures, the zero forward pricing revenue for canola is anticipated to be $1.6 billion less than it should be, while CWRS wheat is looking at a $1.2 billion hit. If you assume 50% was prepriced, canola's hit would be $823 million lower and wheat would also be $606 million less than it should be.

At this time when we have record crops to deliver, rail companies are actually operating 2% to 3% more slowly than they were at this time last year. The railroad's plan was to spot 11,000 cars per week and this just isn't happening. In fact, CP has reduced engines and railcars by 43% and 35% respectively, taking 400 locomotives and 2,700 railcars out of service at a time when we need to move the biggest grain crop in history to port. Further, CP has reduced staff by 4,500 employees.

Our reputation as a reliable supplier to the export market is being damaged by this as well. As an example, last week Japan announced it would start purchasing more American wheat over Canadian wheat because the rail backlogs have led to late Canadian orders two months in a row, leaving Japanese mills short on grain. Even our neighbours to the south are unhappy over Canadian delays. An American General Mills plant has already started importing oats from Scandinavia because Canadian suppliers aren't reliable. As Randy Hoback was quoted as saying, “That's unbelievable.... How can the logistics be easier to ship oats out of Scandinavia to the U.S. versus 400 miles north in Manitoba and Saskatchewan?”

We have more than 50 ships stacked up in Vancouver and Prince Rupert harbours waiting to be filled. Western Canadian grain farmers are paying in the neighbourhood of $500,000 of demurrage per day. Even farmers in B.C. are seeing shortages of feed grain in that province since most of it comes east from the prairie provinces. The situation is going from the sublime to the ridiculous when prairie farmers are sitting on record stockpiles, yet their fellow farmers in B.C. are scrambling for feed grain supplies.

In summary, something must be done and done immediately. The short-term solution to move more grain to the market in the coming months is that the railroads must reallocate locomotives and staffing from other products to grains and oilseeds. The railroads and grain handling companies must work together to utilize this increased access. To enable this, the Government of Canada must enforce the Fair Rail Freight Service Act to ensure an immediate increase in shipping capacity.

The railways have extensive market power over farmers and all shippers. Until this is addressed, the situation will remain unsolved. We firmly believe that rail companies need to fully understand and appreciate how vital an efficient grain transportation system is to western Canada's economy and Canada's reputation as a reliable supplier of world-class grain products to the world, as opposed to their current approach of tailoring their logistics system to maximize their profits.

The government recognizes this and enacted the Fair Rail Freight Service Act last year. Unfortunately, the provisions of the act are fairly weak and do not compel rail companies to enter into a service contract with shippers. Even if they did, there are no penalties imposed on the railways for non-compliance. At this time we are unaware of any shipper who has signed a service contract under the current act.

As well, if a grain company takes a railroad to court and wins, the fine that is outlined in the act automatically goes to the government, so the grain company is out for this legal cost—

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

I'm going to have to ask you to wrap it up fairly quickly.

3:40 p.m.

President, Alberta Federation of Agriculture

Lynn Jacobson

The government is set to review the act next year, but this needs to be done now. We cannot wait another year. The act must be amended immediately to compel railways to enter into service contracts with shippers and have meaningful performance standards in place. Should railways fail to meet these standards, meaningful penalties should apply.

I'll skip to the last point since you have the written thing.

In conclusion, rail companies must be part of an efficient grain transportation system in Canada, which requires both improved human resources and the infrastructure in place to make it happen. Canada is expected to double its grain production by 2050 to help feed the world. Prairie grain farmers are ready to do their part, but this will be meaningless unless the other players in the grain transportation system step up and meet this goal.

We are recommending revision to the Fair Rail Freight Service Act with more enforceable capability on performance standards, addressing accountability, service contracts, premiums, and penalties.

I'd like to thank you for providing us the opportunity to speak to the committee today. We will gladly answer any questions you have.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Thank you very much, Mr. Jacobson.

We will move to the video conference from Swift Current, Saskatchewan. We have the Inland Terminal Association of Canada, Robert Chapman, grain manager for the South West Terminal.

You have five minutes, please.

You're going to have to just hold up a bit, sir. We can see you talking, but we just can't hear you. You have to unmute your mic.

3:45 p.m.

Robert Chapman Grain Manager, South West Terminal, Inland Terminal Association of Canada

The mic is unmuted. It's just taking a long time to unmute, I guess. Sorry about that.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

There we go.

3:45 p.m.

Grain Manager, South West Terminal, Inland Terminal Association of Canada

Robert Chapman

Thank you very much, members.

On behalf of the Inland Terminal Association of Canada, it's a pleasure to take part in this process. The companies within ITAC view themselves as an integral part of a competitive marketplace for farmers. All of the ITAC members have at least 50% ownership by farmers in their companies. Some members have mainline companies as partners, while others are entirely owned by private farmer investors. In all cases, ITAC members offer strong local competition for grain purchases driven by the strong farmer membership.

ITAC members include CMI Terminal near Naicam; Gardiner Dam Terminal near Strongfield; Great Sandhills Terminal near Leader; North West Terminal at Unity; Providence Grain Solutions based out of Fort Saskatchewan, with locations in Alberta and one in Saskatchewan; Prairie West Terminal near Plenty; and South West Terminal at Gull Lake.

The grain handling industry has adapted well to the new marketing environment that started in the previous crop year. Those of us who are left welcome the opportunity to continue to grow our businesses.

On January 24 our group gathered for a regular meeting, and a straw poll was taken of the outstanding orders—railcar requests made and not filled. The eight terminals in attendance were 4,300 cars behind at the time. The group ships about 2.4 million tonnes in a typical year. The unfilled orders amounted to almost 20%, at 17% of typical movement.

Of course this is not a typical year, with crop production at 30% to 40% above normal. It is also important to note that these 4,300 unfilled cars represent real sales that have been made to customers.

It is ITAC's understanding that both railways have gone back to railcar allocation based on historical averages. When they realized the magnitude of the rail backlog, they abandoned the open order system, which was based on sales made and approved through export terminals.

As smaller companies who in many cases are single-point shippers, we have few options, as compared with mainline terminals, to fill customer commitments when railcar supply is restricted. We believe transportation capacity must be enhanced. The industry will need to move even larger volumes of grain as genetics and farming practices evolve. While 2013 was a record crop, we feel this could become near the norm.

The system must be based on performance-driven incentives that are equal for all parties—the shipper, the receiver, and the railways transporting products. Currently elevator companies scramble to load trains in the allotted time to avoid monetary penalties. No such penalties exist when railcars do not arrive on time or sit idle filled with grain.

Please understand that the current environment is based on a one-sided tariff-driven process benefiting the rail companies. We are strong advocates of performance-based, two-way agreements with penalities and transparency. The railway needs to commit more locomotives, railcars, and human resources. We believe necessary financial incentives for the railway companies can be achieved within the current revenue cap.

I could spend time on industry statistics to highlight the magnitude of the backlog, but I'm sure you're more then well aware, given the prior presentations, of the depth of the problem this year. We choose instead, in this presentation, to highlight the overriding fact that rail transportation is failing to meet anywhere close to the current need.

There is a huge cost to farmers and the entire economy. Farmers receive much lower prices because of the backlog, and grain sales have been delayed in a world grain market faced with declining prices. That's not to mention that the system costs are much higher than they would be if the system were performing to expectation. Basis levels are at a record high, lowering further the price that farmers receive. The basis is high because all of us as exporters are paying huge demerit bills for ships that are waiting for grain.

The carry-over grain at the end of the crop year means that a logistical backlog could take two years or more to resolve unless more transportation resources can be deployed. The current backlog of unfilled sales and the inability to execute new sales could seriously damage Canada's reputation as a reliable source of supply. Traditional buyers are already currently shifting their demand to the U.S. and other sources. It's always difficult to win back lost sales and customers.

ITAC wishes to be part of the solution. To that end, we have financially supported Pulse Canada's logistics initiative, which has also gained federal support, as you're aware. However, it's a medium- to long-term initiative. Better movement needs to be accomplished in the short term or this problem will grow increasingly expensive.

Before I close, I would like to reiterate that ITAC businesses are truly farmer-driven. The enterprises have been built and paid for by farmers, and farmers are the guiding force behind them. Farmers need and deserve better rail service.

I appreciate your time and attention. I look forward to questions.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Thank you very much, Mr. Chapman.

We'll go quickly to five-minute rounds, starting off with Madam Brosseau, please.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank our witnesses for being here with us today. I think we're all on the same page in that we really need to get this moving and find some solutions.

I'll just keep some my questions for Mr. Jacobson, please.

In your statement and your presentation to the committee today, you mentioned that you had some problems with the Fair Rail Freight Service Act. I wonder if you could comment more on some amendments that you would like to propose to the committee. I know you said that you would like to have a revision, and there is one to be done next year, but you proposed to have one done right now.

3:50 p.m.

President, Alberta Federation of Agriculture

Lynn Jacobson

Thank you for the question.

Basically, our information in reading the act is that there is really no reason that a grain company would want to sign that agreement. So far we've been proven right, in that no company has signed that thing. We've been told that the reason is that most of the negotiating power and the advantage is on the railroad side if they sign an agreement.

Plus, with that agreement there is such a long timeframe to get it all set up before an arbitrator steps in, that's another problem.

Also, the accountability, the service contracts, and the premiums and penalities are not really set out clearly, as far as we can see. On the penalty part, when a railway is charged a penalty, if that penalty goes back to the government, clearly it should be going to the shipper or it should be going to the producers.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Would you be able to submit those recommendations for amendments to our committee in written form? Is that okay?

3:50 p.m.

President, Alberta Federation of Agriculture

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Thank you.

Another thing I would like to touch on is that this is a logistical problem. There needs to be more communication among all stakeholders and among all players in this to make sure that this does not happen again, because Canada has received a black eye when it comes to our trading partners. This is something that is going to have a domino effect, so we have to make sure that we restore trust.

I wonder if you can comment on your thoughts on having a special agency that would be in charge of logistics when it comes to transport of grain in Canada.

3:50 p.m.

President, Alberta Federation of Agriculture

Lynn Jacobson

It has been talked about. In the back of my mind, I always wonder if maybe we do need some type of agency that's going to regulate all railroad traffic and keep track if we're going to increase the capacity on this.

One of the things that the U.S. does, especially with grain, is report all sales and shipping on that to the USDA. That's lacking in Canada. It's held as proprietary information of the grain company.

The railways now have to report all their shipping and that, but maybe the grain companies also have to be included in that so that we get an overall picture of what is happening within the whole system. You can coordinate the system better with more information.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

We've heard some rumours from other witnesses saying that maybe the rail companies are playing favourites and transporting other goods instead of grain.

Do you agree with those kinds of comments or do you disagree?

3:50 p.m.

President, Alberta Federation of Agriculture

Lynn Jacobson

No, I can't disagree, but I think all the commodities are asking for more rail service and more space and capacity on that rail line.

The rail line has set out their logistics plan, which maximizes their return to shareholders. You can look at their quarterly reports of profit and loss, and you can see what that's doing for them, except it's having a drastic effect on the rest of us in Canada, especially western Canada.

3:50 p.m.

Humphrey Banack Second Vice-President, Alberta Federation of Agriculture

They should be able to be held to accountable...[Technical difficulty--Editor]...with other stuff.

3:50 p.m.

President, Alberta Federation of Agriculture

Lynn Jacobson

Yes.

Can you repeat the last part of your question?

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Last part of the question...oh my gosh, where was I?

Sorry, I was thinking about a follow-up question. Just short term, if we had to take an action today, a recommendation on this report, what would you recommend would help to get grain moving right now?

3:50 p.m.

President, Alberta Federation of Agriculture

Lynn Jacobson

Right now?