Evidence of meeting #46 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ceta.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Claire Citeau  Executive Director, Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance
Matt Sawyer  Chair, Alberta Barley
Erin Gowriluk  Manager, Government Relations and Policy, Alberta Barley
James Laws  Executive Director, Canadian Meat Council
Ron Davidson  Director, Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance
André Coutu  Chief Executive Officer, Agri-Food Export Group Quebec-Canada
Raymond Dupuis  Economist, Strategic Advisor, Agri-Food Export Group Quebec-Canada
William Wymenga  First Vice-Chair, Canadian Pork Council
Sandra Marsden  President, Canadian Sugar Institute
Ian Thomson  International Trade Advisor, Canadian Pork Council

12:05 p.m.

Raymond Dupuis Economist, Strategic Advisor, Agri-Food Export Group Quebec-Canada

If I may, I would like to add that agri-food exports from Quebec to the United States nevertheless have grown and went from $2.4 billion to $3.8 billion since 2006. This is a huge increase. As Mr. Coutu mentioned, it is a record for Quebec exports. In fact, it looks a lot like the Ontario plan. Our exports to the U.S. reached record levels in 2013. Since the exchange rate is even better for us now, we might do even better this year. In fact, preliminary statistics indicate this.

However, we hit a record trade deficit with Europe this year. That is why this is so important. As Mr. Coutu mentioned, the biofood trade deficit with the EU hit $1.1 billion. Of course, a good part of this deficit, that is, 45% of it, is attributable to alcoholic beverages, but it's not only that. It includes many processed products. So this is very important.

12:10 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Agri-Food Export Group Quebec-Canada

André Coutu

The Agri-Food Export Group Quebec-Canada, our administrators and probably also the entire Quebec processing industry support the negotiation of free trade agreements, be it with Europe, Korea or within the framework of the Trans-Pacific Partnership. We don't have a choice, we have to do what we can to make sure we are in the game.

In that regard, it's one thing to sign an agreement, but then you have to act. How will businesses react to the new situation? We agree with several other groups who would like to see a joint participation program bringing together business and government to take specific measures with regard to the European market. We need representatives on the ground to meet with distributors, to target the most promising markets, and to find out what the best short-term business opportunities are.

As far as our good friends the Americans are concerned, we have, we believe, about a two-year advance on them, and we have to take advantage of it. We have to take advantage of this moment as we speak. This is a priority for us.

The Agri-Food Export Group Quebec-Canada will take measures in various sectors to ensure that our businesses don't miss out.

This will not prevent us from continuing to do business on the American market, since the value of Quebec exports to the United States is about $4 billion per year. It is important to keep on working at this. The United States is not an emerging country, but it is a country where we have probably only hit the tip of the business opportunity iceberg.

Coming back to Europe, in the course of negotiations, there were concessions—particularly on the part of Quebec—from both sides. The artisanal cheese sector was discussed. We are very positive about that and we have been proactive. We do not want to lament our fate. I believe that we can make representations and position smaller entrepreneurs, as we did in Paris recently when we represented the Quebec industry.

Raymond, would you like to add anything?

Do we have any time left?

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

You've got a couple of minutes yet.

12:10 p.m.

Economist, Strategic Advisor, Agri-Food Export Group Quebec-Canada

Raymond Dupuis

I would like to say something.

I believe this was mentioned previously by Mr. Laws. The conditions are right, as Mr. Coutu was saying. We have a two-year head start before the Americans conclude their negotiations with the Europeans. The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, or TTIP, is encountering some difficulties right now. But it still leaves us with two years to act. Our Canadian companies have to find new markets on the European continent.

Further, we have to be vigilant about non-tariff barriers such as TTBs—technical trade barriers—or SPMs—sanitary and phytosanitary measures. These measures will be extremely important, and the government will have to deal with them with business if we are to really take advantage of the European market.

That's all I wanted to add.

12:10 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Agri-Food Export Group Quebec-Canada

André Coutu

There you have it, ladies and gentlemen, we are now ready to take your questions or comments.

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Thank you very much.

You operate as a tag team very well. I didn't get to recognize Mr. Dupuis when he interjected, but thank you very much, both of you.

We will now go to the Canadian Pork Council. We have here Mr. Ian Thomson, who is the trade advisor. And on video conference, we have Bill Wymenga.

Mr. Wymenga.

12:10 p.m.

William Wymenga First Vice-Chair, Canadian Pork Council

Thank you very much.

My name is Bill Wymenga. I'm a hog producer here from Blenheim, Ontario, and vice-chair of the Canadian Pork Council. I'm joined here today by Ian Thomson, the Canadian Pork Council's trade advisor.

I would first like to thank the members of your committee for this opportunity to discuss the CETA . The CPC serves as the national voice for hog producers in Canada. We are a federation of nine provincial pork industry associations, and our purpose is to play a leadership role in achieving and maintaining a dynamic and prosperous pork sector.

As you are aware, we are a sector that relies on exports. In fact, more than two-thirds of the hogs produced in Canada are exported either as live hogs or as pork products. Exports help the Canadian hog and pork industry to grow. Our success in achieving and accessing existing foreign markets is directly linked to the level of cooperation between the government and industry.

The completion of CETA is a strong example of what can be achieved through ongoing collaboration and consultation. We appreciate the government's determination to follow through to complete the deal with the EU. This deal is good for the hog sector, and it is in its best interest for Canada and the EU to sign.

Pork is a key component of the Canadian agrifood sector and provincial economies. Canada's pork industry is made up of 7,300 hog farms with cash receipts of $4 billion. Hog producers account for 8% of the total farm cash receipts and are the fifth largest source of farm income in Canada.

The Canadian Pork Council has been following with great interest the developments of the trade agreement. With a population of 500 million in the EU, the majority of whom view pork as their favourite meat, we are very confident that the deal will increase pork exports into this lucrative European market, and that it will benefit hog producers, pork processors, and provincial economies around the country.

The potential in the EU remains untapped. Europe is the only pork-consuming region in the world for which Canada currently has little effective market access. Canada's pork exports to the EU in 2011 were only 415 tonnes. This compares to the total Canadian exports in that year of 1.1 million tonnes.

The 500 million-plus people in the 28 member states consume over 20 million tonnes of pork per year, and that's almost 30 times the Canadian consumption. And despite this, EU imports are just 0.2% of its domestic consumption. By comparison, Canada, with a completely open market approach for pork products, imports more than 200,000 tonnes of pork annually. That's approaching a third of our domestic consumption.

Now is an opportune time for Canada to enter a liberalized trade agreement with the EU. Exports to the EU are currently severely restricted by tariff and non-tariff trade barriers. The new zero tariff access for pork and the much-improved quota administration rules provide unique access for Canada, an advantage over U.S. exports until a trade agreement is worked out between the U.S. and the EU. The potential is seen for hams and to a lesser extent the shoulders, which should help boost the entire carcass value.

Canada's pork industry has a solid reputation for competitive pricing, safe quality products, and reliable customer service.

At the heart of the CETA, for Canadian pork exporters, is the elimination of the EU tariffs. This tariff elimination can be framed within three areas: a quantitative access or tariff rate quota of 80,000 tonnes, a tariff rate quota phase-in period over five years in equal steps until fully implemented, and finding a significantly improved EU import licensing mechanism for Canadian pork. The annual TRQ will be divided and opened in equal quarterly installments. Any unused amounts from a given quarter within the quota year will be rolled forward, up until the end of that same quota year.

It is recognized that Canadian processing plants will need to invest to address EU demands in areas such as feed additives and disease testing. However, with the promise of larger quotas and with a resolution of the quota administration barriers, CETA will encourage additional plans to seek EU certification.

A welcome addition to ensure that all parties meet the intent of the agreement is a TRQ under-fill mechanism. An under-fill is defined as “less than 75% physical imports under the tariff rate quota in a given year”. In such an eventuality, the parties shall meet at the request of either side to consider possible underlying reasons affecting efficient operation of the TRQ.

Progress has been made in the TRQ administration system. The parties will review the operation of the system to make sure it is operating efficiently and effectively, if requested. The review will take into consideration quota utilization, market conditions, and any administrative burdens that might prove excessive.

The Canadian and EU market for pork complement each other, and this relationship holds great potential to enhance our sector's export opportunities as well as benefit workers, businesses, and families who rely on the pork sector for their livelihoods.

The solid trade deal that has been negotiated with the EU will increase Canadian pork exports by up to $400 million per year. This is by far the best opportunity Canada will have for many years to acquire new access to this important pork market.

I would also like to say that in the trade agreements we do have, we have to ensure there are proper resources at all government levels to deal with issues that affect access.

Thank you very much.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Thank you, Mr. Wymenga.

Then we're also going to go by video conference to Toronto. We have with us from the Canadian Sugar Institute, Sandra Marsden, president.

Welcome, Sandra. You have 10 minutes, please.

12:20 p.m.

Sandra Marsden President, Canadian Sugar Institute

Thank you very much, honourable members of the committee, and guests.

The Canadian Sugar lnstitute represents Canadian refined sugar producers, with three cane sugar refineries in Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal, and a sugar beet processing plant in Taber, Alberta. The industry is a capital-intensive, value-added industry, and is historically based on the refining of raw cane sugar at major ports.

Sugar beet production and processing have proved to be competitive inland and remain so in the prairie market. Today, about 90% of Canada's sugar is from refined cane sugar and 10% is from our domestic sugar beet production and processing.

The industry has rationalized as a result of competitive pressures, given a very uneven international trade environment, but has aIso invested to improve the efficiency and competitiveness of existing operations. The industry has added further value through investments in two further processing facilities in Ontario and those plants produce products such as iced tea mixes, drink mixes, cocoa mixes, gelatine mixes, and so on. Most of those products are exported to the U.S. under quotas and face restrictions there. The industry is aIso highly dependent on further processing. So the food processing customer base in Canada is essential, given that 80% of Canada's sugar is sold to that sector.

The CSI supports government initiatives that will result in commercially meaningful export opportunities and that address the trade distortions of Canada's trading partners. The Canadian refined sugar market is not growing, so the only mechanism to enhance investment and jobs is through exports. The CETA represents the only significant agreement since the NAFTA that will create new opportunities to strengthen Canada's sugar and further processing food sectors.

This is very important for Canada, because major sugar users, those food processors that produce products such as confectionery and bakery products, preserved fruits, and so on, account for $18 billion in revenues, $5 billion in exports, and 63,000 Canadian jobs. Canada's sugar and sugar-using food sectors are mutually dependent. Our industry depends on food customers for the majority of our sales and in turn the food processing sector depends on a local supply of high quality, competitively priced sugar. Free trade agreements such as the CETA are of particular value because the target is a developed, high-value market and the FTA benefits the full value chain. The outcome of the CETA will benefit Canadian beet and cane sugar, sugar-containing products, and further processed food products.

Canada's sugar and food processing sectors are highly dependent on the U.S. market today. Unfortunately, the NAFTA did not liberalize sugar trade between Canada and the U.S., so we still face restrictions for sugar and sugar-containing products, the U.S. quotas. The growth in trade with the United States was substantive under the NAFTA, particularly for processed food products; they're our customers. Unfortunately, with the improvement in the Canadian dollar, and other factors such as higher input costs and energy costs, we've seen a levelling out in exports to the U.S. market, as well as an increase in imports from the U.S.

The CETA is a critical new opportunity to diversify our markets and strengthen that strong linkage between Canada's sugar and food processing sectors.

While the Canadian refined sugar industry is exposed to world market conditions—we don't have domestic subsidies and high tariffs—markets outside of Canada remain highly distorted due to government intervention. Our largest trading partners, the U.S., Mexico, and the EU, continue to maintain sugar programs that generate surplus production, given their high domestic support and import protection. For example, notwithstanding the attempts to reform the European sugar program, its surpluses have returned to historic levels. These surpluses continue to pose a threat to open markets such as ours and we recognize that a multilateral solution will be necessary to address this problem.

The CETA doesn't address this trade imbalance, but it does provide new access into a market that has historically provided zero access for our industry, in particular, sugar and sugar-containing products, and has limited access for food processors that we supply. For sugar itself, the EU tariff under the CETA will be phased out for originating Canadian beet sugar in Alberta. Over the long run, this will provide an important benefit to Canadian sugar beet producers and beet processing in that province.

For our Canadian refined cane sugar, the bulk of what the industry produces, it will not benefit directly from the agreement, given the European Union restrictive rules of origin. However, negotiators were successful in achieving new quotas for sugar-containing products made with Canadian refined sugar.

There will be a new 30,000-tonne quota for these sugar-containing products that are produced in the facilities in Ontario, and that will grow to about 52,000 tonnes over 15 years.

There is also new access to the EU for sugar and chocolate confectionery and other processed foods that use sugar. That will also benefit our industry, because we will potentially sell more sugar to those customers who will export to the EU. Again because of restrictive rules of origin, the CETA includes a new 10,000-tonne quota for chocolate and sugar confectionery and a 35,000-tonne quota for other processed foods such as baked foods, cereals, mixes and doughs, etc. We estimate that after full implementation, new access for Canadian sugar, sugar-containing products, and the sugar in processed foods will result in an additional $100 million in sales. These new opportunities are essential to restoring capacity utilization in a very capital-intensive sugar industry.

Since 2004, our industry has experienced a 150,000-tonne or approximately 12% decline in production reflecting the decline in exports to the U.S. and increase in imports from the U.S. of processed products containing sugar. New exports to Europe will benefit our industry and help restore some of that capacity utilization by increasing demand for sugar as an input. Overall, capacity utilization is essential to lowering production costs and improving overall competitiveness. In the long run, that will help maintain a prosperous industry and hopefully attract more investment in food processing in Canada.

The CSI congratulates the government on its success in negotiating the CETA. The CETA does not eliminate the EU trade-distorting sugar program and the negative impact that can have on our market; however, the continued threat of that program can be addressed only in the multilateral context. Nevertheless, the CETA is an important offset to that trade imbalance, and CSI welcomes the government's commitment to the industry through agreements such as this. The government must, however, also remain vigilant to ensure that those negotiated benefits are secured and fully realized through administrative mechanisms and any market development activities that can support finding those customers in Europe. It's also essential that those benefits not be undermined through other trade negotiations such as the U.S.-EU negotiations that are under way. We will continue to work closely with Canadian officials to ensure that our industry fully benefits from the opportunities that have been created.

We also believe that this agreement sets the stage for Canada's ambition in other trade negotiations such as the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which is the most important opportunity on our horizon, given its regional nature and comprehensive goals. By the common set of rules among 12 countries, the TPP has the potential to enable the cumulation of inputs within the region, including refined cane and beet sugar, and to promote supply chain growth through to final food processing in Canada.

The Canadian Sugar Institute and its members applaud the ongoing efforts of the government to widen our commercial relationships and to build on the strength of our Canada-U.S. relationship, to widen that and diversify markets.

We see the CETA as a very positive development in a highly restricted global sugar market. We are also heartened to hear about some of the renewed commitment to the World Trade Organization and potential future negotiations, which over the long term provide the best prospects for multilateral reform of global sugar policies.

Thank you.

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Thank you very much, Ms. Marsden.

We'll start off with Madam Raynault for five minutes.

12:30 p.m.

NDP

Francine Raynault NDP Joliette, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank our witnesses for being at today's meeting.

My question is for Mr. Coutu. Perhaps Mr. Dupuis could also respond if he has anything to add.

In your testimony, you indicated that there was a very significant deficit in our trade with Europe. In your opinion, how can that be addressed?

You said that exports are important and crucial. How do you see the future? How would you correct the situation?

12:30 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Agri-Food Export Group Quebec-Canada

André Coutu

The main obstacle is certainly the tariff grid which applies to products entering Europe.

Mr. Dupuis can correct me if I am mistaken, but on average, about 14% of Canada's exports go to Europe. That in itself is an obstacle. For certain products, that figure stands at 25%, 26% or 28%; for others, it's a bit less. The average stands at around 14% or 15%, which makes it extremely difficult for our manufacturers to gain access to that market. It makes them uncompetitive, and on top of that you have to take into account the exchange rate.

In our view, these tariffs have to come down. Some of our Quebec members have huge expectations. They are enthusiastic about the agreement which was announced. For the first time, they will be able to access these markets, gain a few market share points and develop the European market for their products.

12:30 p.m.

NDP

Francine Raynault NDP Joliette, QC

You said that it was one thing to sign an agreement, but that you would nevertheless like there to be a program or agreements between companies and the government.

Would you like to add anything to that?

12:30 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Agri-Food Export Group Quebec-Canada

André Coutu

It would be a good idea in the interest of supporting companies and manufacturers. In fact, it would not be a subsidy, but a program based on participation. A company could invest a dollar and the government could match the amount. It would be shared and equal financing.

Of course, this money would first and foremost go to training. I think that a first step needs to be taken in that regard. It is important that Canadian companies know exactly which countries to target within the framework of the free trade agreement. They have to know how to go about finding those markets and know what exactly they can do to position themselves.

There is also a lot of networking that needs to be done when it comes to food distribution in Europe. We really have to take advantage of our head start. We have do that now. It's all very well and good to talk about the market and to make the market accessible, but we have to get into it now. As we said, we have to start playing hockey. Everything is there, everything is ready, so let's go to centre ice right away so that we do not get outplayed in the medium term.

12:30 p.m.

NDP

Francine Raynault NDP Joliette, QC

Indeed, there will still be competition between Canada, Quebec and Europe. But we expect that many foreign products will enter our market.

Thank you.

I will now turn to the president of the Canadian Sugar Institute.

Ms. Marsden, on December 5, 2013, you testified before the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food, and you said this:

Overall, the Canadian refined sugar industry needs access to export markets, as do our customers. CETA is a critical new opportunity to diversify those markets. Today about 90% of processed food are exported to the United States, and that trade has plateaued.

On December 5, 2013, you said you supported CETA. Do you have anything new to tell us? Is there anything else you would like to add to what you already said?

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Ms. Marsden.

12:30 p.m.

President, Canadian Sugar Institute

Sandra Marsden

Thank you.

To clarify this situation with respect to the U.S. and sugar-containing food products—not all processed food products but those that contain sugar—which is about $4.5 billion, that trade balance hasn't changed very much, so there is still an imperative for us to reach other export markets, both directly and through our food processing customers.

The terms of the agreement with the CETA are essentially as we expected last year so we have the same outlook. Of course, we're anxious to see the agreement implemented. Having a better understanding of that time horizon would be helpful, and in turn, that would help us to start to build the customer base in Europe for those products.

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

We'll move to Mr. Dreeshen, for five minutes, please.

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

Earl Dreeshen Conservative Red Deer, AB

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I know if my colleague Mr. Payne gets a chance, he'll no doubt talk about the sugar beet industry. I'll leave that for him if he does that have that opportunity. I know there's a great market in southern Alberta, and they do amazing things with that particular product.

Mr. Coutu, I could address some of the things you had spoken on. I had an opportunity back in September to attend the trade mission in London. We had so many different processors and distributors, and I think 35 stakeholders all the way from barley to beef to seafood, and of course technology as well.

There is great excitement but also a need and an understanding that we have to make sure we realize what Europeans need. In this lead-up time—these two years you were speaking of and the rest of the time—people are going to be able to market things the way in which they are best positioned to be successful. I suppose that's one of the things I want to speak of. With the discussions we've had here over the last few months, I have great faith in our industry to be able to move forward and to take on this type of a challenge. I believe, Mr. Coutu, you had spoken about Quebec and its view as to how they will be able to proceed and the advantages they will have.

I was wondering if you could speak to the ability for competition and how they will be able to branch out and if you could explain some of the enhanced opportunities that will be there specifically because of the CETA.

12:35 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Agri-Food Export Group Quebec-Canada

André Coutu

First of all, I must say, as I said earlier, we're partnered with the SIAL organization. They're a European-based organization; their core business is trade shows, which brings in a very large and important network of food distributors and retailers. We've already talked with our partners to start building up a business-to-business mission in Europe to better understand first of all what the culture is country by country, and to understand where the best opportunities are for the food processors of Quebec and of course Canada. We're planning to go ahead with this as soon as possible, as soon as the accord goes on. We want to be ready. We've also been talking to the Quebec government, the Ontario government, with associations in the eastern part of Canada, and we're all together in the same boat. Each one of us already has experience in that. Groupe Export is doing 26 shows around the world and many in Europe—in France, SIAL Paris, Germany, London, everywhere. We've got a very good idea of what's going on, but we need that little push to start working in the field every day, on a regular basis, to make things happen.

I don't know if this is clear enough.

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

Earl Dreeshen Conservative Red Deer, AB

Having the CETA in one's back pocket makes it a lot easier for you to be able to—

12:35 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Agri-Food Export Group Quebec-Canada

André Coutu

It's a lot easier, no doubt about that.

We've been holding meetings and meetings in the last 12 months with universities in Montreal, with people who know what they're talking about when they talk about the free trade agreement, and the industry came up front. We can talk about the maple syrup industry, the cranberry industry, the fisheries, the small fruit industries; all these guys are waiting to join and get on the train to expand their business to Europe.

We trust that Quebec will gain something like $250 million to $300 million when this agreement is done. For us, it's a green light; there's no doubt in my mind and no doubt in everyone's mind. The industry wants us to go ahead with this.

12:40 p.m.

Economist, Strategic Advisor, Agri-Food Export Group Quebec-Canada

Raymond Dupuis

If I may add something.

The $200 million to $300 million is apart from the big guys like pork, of course. It's already been mentioned that they expect something around $400 million. The total expected gains are in the range of $1.5 billion for agrifood only, so it's a lot. As I mentioned earlier, the deficit for Quebec alone is in the range of $1.1 billion—agrifood only, so it's huge. As Mr. Coutu mentioned, with the 14% average tariffs, it's easy to understand. There needs to be some support from a public-private type of effort to make it work. I think it's very important. It's also important to understand that our European and American competitors help their companies a lot. Sometimes we think we're the only ones who think about it, but there's a lot of state competition in this battle.

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

That's it, Mr. Dreeshen. We are out of time.

Now I'm going to go to Mr. Eyking, for five minutes, please.

December 2nd, 2014 / 12:40 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for coming.

I have a few questions, first for the Quebec exporters.

My sense is that you're for this agreement and you see the big potential. If one were looking on the outside, they would say that Quebec could fit very well into this trade agreement. When you look at Quebec, some would say they're more European than the rest of Canada, with their food habits and their tastes. Also, you're well positioned. I mean, most of your stuff is bilingual, and we are in the metric system, so there are a lot of things we have going for us. I would say that Quebec has a good opportunity. The numbers that you're producing are already pretty high.

Can you tell me what products you see as a fit, that stand right out? Let's say you have five or eight products that you could see would do well in Europe. What are some of your companies that would be able to step up to the plate right away?