Evidence of meeting #46 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ceta.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Claire Citeau  Executive Director, Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance
Matt Sawyer  Chair, Alberta Barley
Erin Gowriluk  Manager, Government Relations and Policy, Alberta Barley
James Laws  Executive Director, Canadian Meat Council
Ron Davidson  Director, Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance
André Coutu  Chief Executive Officer, Agri-Food Export Group Quebec-Canada
Raymond Dupuis  Economist, Strategic Advisor, Agri-Food Export Group Quebec-Canada
William Wymenga  First Vice-Chair, Canadian Pork Council
Sandra Marsden  President, Canadian Sugar Institute
Ian Thomson  International Trade Advisor, Canadian Pork Council

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

I think you are right.

What happened was that Madam Brosseau put forward a concurrence motion in the House on the report, and that was amended. The House sent it back to committee with a specific recommendation that the committee look at amending the report. That is what will probably happen, right? There will be an amendment made to the report and then the report will be sent back to the House.

To clarify, we didn't vote against concurrence in the report. We voted for the amended motion, which was saying that when the report comes back to the House in its amended format, then there will be a concurrence vote. I will watch with interest to see how the NDP are going to vote on that because I'm getting such mixed signals.

The final text document is going to come back to the House, and then all MPs will have a chance to vote on whether they support CETA as negotiated because the details are now known.

11:35 a.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

I appreciate my colleague enlightening me, because it's interesting that his determination is that we will now know how people will vote on CETA. The dilemma is that there is no bill in front of the House for CETA, to either support it or not. There are certainly the texts of a document that are out there, and there are details attached to it—there's more information attached to it now than there was when we did the study. It's there for folks to then go and look at, and therefore we get input from our friends who are here today.

I'm sorry for this sort of go-around, but clearly it needs to be clarified. What happens is that, when an enabling legislation comes, whatever that looks like.... It may include Mr. Laws' intervention on geographical indicators. Maybe there should be something in there. Maybe there should be something about supply management, and that may well be attached to the bill that comes before the House. We will then indicate, by standing in our place.... The clerk will dutifully call Mr. Allen, Welland—as he usually does—or Mr. Allen, Tobique—Mactaquac, when it comes time to vote.

Clearly, there is no bill here for us to actually vote up or down on. There is a report, potentially, which we may amend, that wants a recommendation attached to it. But it can't be an instruction that we do something when there is nothing to be instructed to do. We can't say we support CETA legislation, because there isn't any legislation; there is just the text of an agreement. Many of these folks at the end of the table, and their organizations, have worked extremely hard on this. Well done, to them, for working hard on it.

The reality is that, if we're narrow in scope and all we've done is send back a report that we actually like because we only added a supplementary report to it—we didn't add a dissenting report to that piece—and the House has instructed us to do something else, then the issue becomes that we're being instructed to vote on something as if it were in the House of Commons, and then I need to see the legislation.

So if the parliamentary secretary has the legislation and would be willing to share it in camera, then perhaps we can come to some rational and reasonable decision, but I just don't see it. I don't think he has it, and I don't think he can share it because he would actually need to have it. As Mr. Laws quite ably pointed out, there's a side letter that is going to take a year to talk about things. I'm not sure the date of the letter, but it's not expired yet—I don't think—and I would suggest the sanitary things aren't decided upon, so that would mean the legislation isn't forthcoming.

So, I still wait for an instruction as to how.... If the Chair's allowing me to ask any question, then this is it. Or maybe we are being restrictive to the amendment. I don't know. I'm still not clear.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Mr. Eyking is going to follow up on your point.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

I'm not pleased, of course, that we're back to this discussion. We dealt with this in the last meeting. I'm not happy where it is, but the reality is that the NDP threw a snowball in the House and the Conservatives threw a rock back here, and now we're at this juncture.

We have witnesses here from across the country, and it is what it is. We all know how it got here, so I suggest we move on here and ask the questions here and deal with it, because we have another batch of witnesses coming here this morning. If we were going to talk about this all morning here, I would have suggested we didn't invite the witnesses, Chair.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

That's true.

We'll go to Mr. Hoback and then Mr. Lemieux.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Mr. Eyking, you are exactly right, so I'll be very brief.

I just want to remind you and get it on the record for the committee and our witnesses here that, when we did the first study, we did not have the text. Now the witnesses here can provide information based on actually reading the text, and update the information so that we can actually improve the report based on the text. That is actually what's going on here, Chair; we're actually looking at the text now and asking, “Okay, looking at the text, how do you view this report?” It gives us a chance to make a more accurate and better report. Then you can base your opinion on the text and the testimony of the witnesses.

But I agree with Mr. Eyking. Let's get on with the meeting because the reality is that I want to hear what they have to say, and I think there are lots of good things here and they want to talk about them, so we should let them talk about it.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Mr. Lemieux, go ahead.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

That's okay.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Then we're going to move on.

You didn't ask for a point of order, but we're going to move.

Mr. Allen, I'm going to give you a chance to ask questions.

11:40 a.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

I hear Mr. Eyking and I normally agree with him, but today I don't.

Mr. Hoback just made the point that, since they now have the details.... I'm speaking of our friends at the end here. I don't wish to refer to them as if they're third parties and as if they don't exist, because they're here. They're wonderful witnesses and we've seen many of them before, and they do great work.

If, indeed, Mr. Hoback is correct—and I'm looking at you, Chair, to actually tell me if it's true. Mr. Hoback has just said that, now that they've had an opportunity to look at additional information, if it's offered from witness testimony, then we'll actually amend the entire report and add the pieces in as we go along. If that is true, then that's really what I asked at the beginning. Are we taking whatever they give us and, if it's new, having the analysts work on a brand new report plus a potential amendment? If that's true, then that's fine. That's really what I asked at the beginning. Mr. Hoback's confirmed it, but I need you to confirm it.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Actually I'm not so sure he confirmed that, but I'm going to go now to Mr. Lemieux.

December 2nd, 2014 / 11:40 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Chair, I would just say that generally in committee meetings like this meeting today there is latitude given to the witnesses, and there is latitude given to the MPs with regard to exactly what it is they'd like to talk about. It generally has to be on theme, but there's a lot of latitude given.

The presentations that are made and the discussions following them are one thing, but what about the report? When it comes down to reviewing a report and amending the report, the House has given specific direction to the committee about having a single amendment to the report. It is not to completely rewrite it, not to remove other recommendations and replace them, and not to redo all the work on the report. It has given the committee specific, detailed direction regarding an amendment to the report, and the committee will ultimately decide whether or not it will follow the request of the House.

This has happened in other circumstances too. When the House gives direction to a committee, it doesn't open the doors to a complete overhaul of the report or of legislation. It is very specific. So although we might have witnesses come in, and we might have discussions, and the discussions might be wide ranging or narrow ranging or something in between, ultimately the committee will have to decide whether or not to follow the House's specific direction in amending the report.

That's my understanding, Chair.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

I'm going to move on, folks. We can talk around this a lot—

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

Mr. Chair, did they just use up all their time?

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

He did.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

Did both of them?

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

No, actually it was Mr. Allen who came forward.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

I think they both used up 10 minutes here, Chair.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Actually it was 12 minutes.

Mr. Lemieux, you have five minutes. Go ahead, please.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Actually, Chair, if you're going to use up Mr. Allen's time, use up my time as well, because I was a key participant in that debate, so you can move to Mr. Eyking.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Mr. Eyking was a participant, so he loses half of his time.

11:40 a.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

11:40 a.m.

An hon. member

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Mark.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

Okay, I'll be quick.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Mr. Eyking, we are always with you very generous with our time. You have five minutes.