Evidence of meeting #4 for Bill C-11 (41st Parliament, 1st Session) in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was radio.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

  • Bill Skolnik  Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Federation of Musicians
  • Don Conway  President, Pineridge Broadcasting
  • Ian MacKay  President, Re:Sound Music Licensing Company
  • Aline Côté  President, Les Éditions Berger, Association nationale des éditeurs de livres
  • Jean Bouchard  Vice-President and General Manager, Groupe Modulo, Association nationale des éditeurs de livres
  • Cynthia Andrew  Policy Analyst, Ontario Public School Boards Association, Canadian School Boards Association
  • Michèle Clarke  Director, Government Relations and Policy Research, Public Affairs, Association of Canadian Community Colleges
  • Claude Brulé  Dean, Algonquin College, Association of Canadian Community Colleges

10:10 a.m.

President, Re:Sound Music Licensing Company

Ian MacKay

We haven't been able to do it on our own because there aren't any rules in the Copyright Act that set out how we can do it. In every other regime in the Copyright Act those rules exist, and the ability of the Copyright Board to set regulations exists.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

Paul Calandra Oak Ridges—Markham, ON

How much is it?

10:10 a.m.

President, Re:Sound Music Licensing Company

Ian MacKay

It's millions of dollars. Basically, if we can't locate 5% of the rights-holders each year, it just grows from year to year. It becomes a bigger and bigger problem.

10:10 a.m.

NDP

The Chair Glenn Thibeault

Thank you, Mr. Calandra and witnesses.

We're now moving on to the next five minutes of questioning, with Mr. Cash.

February 28th, 2012 / 10:10 a.m.

NDP

Andrew Cash Davenport, ON

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

This panel is very close to my background. I'll fully disclose that I'm a member of the Canadian Federation of Musicians, so when the government tells us that we're following cues from our union bosses, I suppose this is my union boss, and I can confirm that I've never spoken to him in my life, especially around things that we vote on in the House.

I do want to underline something that I think is very troubling. Here we have, essentially, representatives of small businesses—musicians really are—and here we have a representative of a small radio station, and we are trying to make them beat each other up over very small amounts of money. In fact, I'd argue that Mr. Conway's representation here does not really represent the shape of broadcasting in Canada. In fact, he's a small player in a very large business, and his issues are actually different from the majority of radio.

That said, I wanted to ask you, Mr. Conway, when you talk about having to make copies every 30 days, why would you have to do that?

10:10 a.m.

President, Pineridge Broadcasting

Don Conway

As I understand it, that was in the bill.

10:10 a.m.

NDP

Andrew Cash Davenport, ON

Well, there is an alternative to making copies every 30 days, no?

10:10 a.m.

President, Pineridge Broadcasting

Don Conway

To keep paying when we don't need multiple copies.

10:10 a.m.

NDP

Andrew Cash Davenport, ON

Not necessarily to keep paying, but to actually pay for the licence.

10:10 a.m.

President, Pineridge Broadcasting

Don Conway

To make multiple copies.

10:10 a.m.

NDP

Andrew Cash Davenport, ON

To make a copy, to retain—

10:10 a.m.

President, Pineridge Broadcasting

Don Conway

Yes, we pay the download fee, right? We didn't have to before, but now we do.

10:10 a.m.

NDP

Andrew Cash Davenport, ON

What I'm asking you is, do you not have an alternative to what you're describing as an incredibly onerous process? We can leave that aside, because that sounds a little odd too, that you'd have to make copies of 3,000 songs in real time.

10:10 a.m.

President, Pineridge Broadcasting

Don Conway

That's what the bill says, sir. That's all.

10:10 a.m.

NDP

Andrew Cash Davenport, ON

I don't see that in there. Is there not an alternative? You could seek to go to the rights-holders and get a licence. Why wouldn't you do that? What is the issue here?

What you're saying is that rather than pay the licence, you're going to make copies every 30 days. I just want to be clear. Is that what you're saying you are going to do if things remain they way they are in C-11, that every 30 days you're going to make a copy...?