Bill C-11 Committee on March 5th, 2012

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

You must have some idea of them. I'm sure you've given it some thought.

[Alain Lauzon]

Yes, well, if you look at some countries, they use the three-step test, the three-strike—

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Should it apply to an iPod?

[Alain Lauzon]

Sure. Why not?

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

An iPad?

[Alain Lauzon]

Sure. Why not?

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

A laptop?

[Alain Lauzon]

Sure. Why not?

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

The Internet?

[Alain Lauzon]

It's another way of monetizing the value of the right.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

So—

[Alain Lauzon]

There's a value—

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

You say a laptop, sure, so I'm going to use that example. You say a laptop, yes; okay, you referred to a business model. You said that it's not a tax, that it's a business model. How can you justify the business model as it relates to someone who might buy a laptop and not use it for music at all, or for any other creative use?

[Alain Lauzon]

When we are in front of the Copyright Board, the Copyright Board does not give any royalties based on what we ask. What they do is they ask.... Let's say it's CPCC. They are well informed of it there and they do some surveys of what it has done. When we receive the private copying levy out of the board, that decision has been done by surveys and by studies and all of that.

It's not the creators who went in front of the Copyright Board to say that they want to have that level of money; it's becoming a kind of value agreement in front of the Copyright Board—

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

But you argued that it was a business model. Again, how do you set up a business model that collects money for you from someone who doesn't even use your product? That's a dream business model, I would suggest.

[Alain Lauzon]

There is a way by which you will have to remunerate the value of the songs that are created and pay for the songs. That's for sure.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Many have come before the committee and have said that we are doing that. They've said that's exactly what Bill C-11 does. It actually creates value for creators because it takes away the ability for people to pirate creative works and creates an environment whereby creators can be paid for what they create, so a better quality of product will be compensated for more.

[Alain Lauzon]

We don't see that the law creates value for the creators. You create value for part of the ayants droit—

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Okay, yes—

[Alain Lauzon]

—but it's mainly producers, and you don't create—

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I would—

[Alain Lauzon]

We don't see that. What we see is that we have rights that are in the law. We have them in the law, but they are not getting paid. Broadcast mechanical and private copying are not extended to DAR, to reproduction.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I want to transition, if I could, to the broadcast mechanical.

If you add the $21 million for the reproduction right that you talk about and the money from the performance right that radio stations pay, is it fair to say that more money is paid today than was paid 10 years ago?

[Alain Lauzon]

Obviously. The—

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Is it fair to say that if you take away the $21 million for the reproduction right, substantially more money is paid today just for the performance right alone than was paid 10 years ago?