Evidence of meeting #8 for Bill C-11 (41st Parliament, 1st Session) in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was copyright.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

  • Catharine Saxberg  Executive Director, Canadian Music Publishers Association
  • Victoria Shepherd  Executive Director, AVLA Audio-Video Licensing Agency Inc.
  • Mario Chenart  President of the Board, Société professionnelle des auteurs et des compositeurs du Québec
  • Jean-Christian Céré  General Manager, Société professionnelle des auteurs et des compositeurs du Québec
  • Sundeep Chauhan  Legal Counsel, AVLA Audio-Video Licensing Agency Inc.
  • Gerry McIntyre  Executive Director, Canadian Educational Resources Council
  • Greg Nordal  President and Chief Executive Officer, Nelson Education, Canadian Educational Resources Council
  • Jacqueline Hushion  Executive Director, External Relations, Legal and Government Affairs, Canadian Publishers' Council
  • David Swail  President and Chief Executive Officer, McGraw-Hill Ryerson Limited, Canadian Publishers' Council
  • Mary Hemmings  Chair, Copyright Committee, Canadian Association of Law Libraries

9:45 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Music Publishers Association

Catharine Saxberg

Well, as Ms. Shepherd has pointed out, they haven't paid for the music coming in the door. That music is provided to them for free.

Are you talking about the fact that they've paid for performance royalties?

9:45 a.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Halifax West, NS

Yes, that's what they were arguing.

9:45 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Music Publishers Association

Catharine Saxberg

This goes back to the fundamental principles of copyright that have been globally held right back to the 19th century. There is a right of communication and a right of reproduction. Each of these rights has an individual value, and each of these rights is used differently. They pay for the performance of the music, on one hand, which is one use with one value. The right of reproduction is another use with another value.

They are not paying for the same thing twice; they are paying to do two separate functions, and they're paying for the ability to do each of those functions individually.

9:45 a.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Halifax West, NS

Let me ask you about the Pirate Bay issue you raised. You mentioned that in Britain they're able to get injunctions. Is that what you're suggesting here? Or are you suggesting it in relation to notice to take down?

The difficulty of course with notice to take.... Actually, there are two things. You talked about people who are foreign operators as opposed to domestic.

9:50 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Music Publishers Association

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Halifax West, NS

Are you suggesting that there be a distinction in how you treat them?

One of the worries I have is that you have a small player who is a user or whatever and who has put up something that is allegedly infringing. Maybe it is or it isn't; someone claims it's infringing. If you have notice to take down, the ISP has to take it down—period, that's it—rather than the person who's put it up having the chance to defend himself.

Arguably the ISP shouldn't have to be the arbiter of that. But you make a distinction between domestic and foreign in that regard. What's your comment?

9:50 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Music Publishers Association

Catharine Saxberg

Yes, we do make a distinction between foreign and domestic in this regard.

The technical amendment we are proposing is specifically for offshore sites. It's specifically for sites that are rampant pirates and being able to create injunctions that would block them from entering into Canada.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Halifax West, NS

Good.

Mr. Chenart and Mr. Céré, do you prefer the Supreme Court of Canada's test in the CCH case, and would you like to see it in the bill?

9:50 a.m.

President of the Board, Société professionnelle des auteurs et des compositeurs du Québec

Mario Chenart

Do you know about it?

9:50 a.m.

General Manager, Société professionnelle des auteurs et des compositeurs du Québec

9:50 a.m.

President of the Board, Société professionnelle des auteurs et des compositeurs du Québec

Mario Chenart

I don't have the answer to your question.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Halifax West, NS

We were talking about the Berne Convention.

9:50 a.m.

President of the Board, Société professionnelle des auteurs et des compositeurs du Québec

Mario Chenart

Yes, I know all the work that was…

9:50 a.m.

NDP

The Chair Glenn Thibeault

I'm sorry. We're well over time.

Thank you very much, Mr. Regan.

Now we'll move on to the second round, and Mr. Moore, for five minutes.

March 6th, 2012 / 9:50 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Moore Fundy Royal, NB

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, witnesses.

Mr. Chenart, you said that the Internet has shaken the industry. Yet we're in a time when Canadians and people worldwide are consuming more than ever.

We heard testimony yesterday about a famous Canadian star, Justin Bieber. There's a movie out about him. It's called Never Say Never. It chronicles his rise to fame, tied very closely to new technology, the Internet, to options that weren't available even 10 years ago.

How do you reconcile that? Are some people better than others at taking advantage of new technologies—the new formats, new ways to succeed?

It would be hard to argue that he is not a success. He's a great success, but his rise to fame was done in a very unconventional way.

Can you comment on that?