Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 16th, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Welcome to the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage. The date is February 16, 2011, and this is the 42nd meeting of our committee.

Before we begin, I understand that Mr. Del Mastro would like to move....

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair.

As you recall, at the end of the last meeting we were in consideration of a motion being brought by Mr. Angus. I'd like to see that dealt with at the beginning of this committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Very well.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

I think it can be disposed of.

I'd just like to say that I look forward to seeing an outstanding nomination that the vice-chair brought to this committee to talk about the CRTC.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay. Is it the wish of the committee to have the motion put?

Mr. Angus, would you care to move your motion?

[An hon. member]

Wait. Just a second.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Mr. Chair, we agree, if the government party abstains. Otherwise, let's wait to the end, so our colleague can join us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Are you in agreement?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I think it's a bit weird, but I'm okay with changing the vote and doing it right now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

I understand that he's indicated—

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

You're going to win.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

—that they will allow the question to be put, and I'm confident that the results will be in your good graces.

Mr. Angus, would you care to move your motion?

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Yes, Mr. Chair, I'll move my motion forward.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you. The motion has been moved as it has been printed on the paper and distributed by the clerk. Is there any debate on the motion?

Seeing none, I'll call the question.

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

The motion has been adopted. Thank you very much.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are undertaking a study of the mandate and funding of the CBC/Radio-Canada.

We have three witnesses with us: the Hon. James Moore, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages, and Mr. Jean and Mr. Blais, from the Department of Canadian Heritage. Welcome, gentlemen.

We'll begin with an opening statement.

[James Moore, Conservative, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to my colleagues on the committee.

As was mentioned first, I'd like to introduce those with whom I'm sharing my time here as witnesses. Many of you know Jean-Pierre Blais, who has been before this committee many times.

Daniel Jean, I believe it's your first time as Deputy Minister of Canadian Heritage before the heritage committee. I believe he has appeared with me before the official languages committee, but he is replacing Judith LaRocque, the long-time deputy minister. Maybe many of you have known Daniel Jean, and if you have not yet met him, this is your opportunity to first have an interaction with him.

I'm pleased they're both here. They'll be pleased to answer any questions if you have any directed to them.

I also appreciate the opportunity to talk with each of you and to have a conversation about Canada's national public broadcaster. The year 2011 marks the 75th anniversary of the creation of the CBC. It is in this context that I'd like to begin by sharing some facts that I often share with Canadians when I speak about arts and culture across the country, because I think they bear repeating, not only by myself but by all members of Parliament who believe in supporting Canada's creative economy.

Canada's arts and cultural sector employs more than 630,000 Canadians. It contributes more than $46 billion to our gross domestic product. It is larger than Canada's insurance industry; it's larger than Canada's forest industry.

Our government has presented five budgets before the Parliament of Canada. In every one of our five budgets, we have increased funding for arts and culture. Unlike other governments in the G-8, our government made a decision in a time of recession not just to maintain funding for arts and culture, but to increase funding for arts and culture in a time of recession--not to cut, not to maintain funding, but to increase funding for the arts. It's no secret that when economies go into recession and governments get into financial trouble, arts and culture are often an early target for governments. In the current global context, this has been a reality for many in the G-8 and the G-20, but it hasn't been a fact with our government. We have made different choices, and we've done so for two broad reasons.

First, it's because of the social importance that arts and culture play in this country in building communities, in enhancing the quality of life of all Canadians, in national unity, in respecting our past and inspiring kids. The social contract that exists between government and citizen when it comes to supporting the arts is something that our government holds dear.

The second reason why we have not cut funding for the arts but have increased funding for the arts is because the arts are a massive generator of economic growth in our communities. Arts and culture means jobs. It also means economic development.

We recognize how important the arts are to building communities and investing in jobs for the digital age. The broadcasting industry is a prime example. And, as everyone in this room knows, the Canadian broadcasting system is unique. The challenges of geography, language, and our proximity to the United States have shaped our system and will continue to do so. Our broadcasting system makes a critically important contribution both to our society and to our economy.

We are currently going through a time in which our broadcasting system is changing. And consumers are adapting to the new environment. Canadians are moving toward more interactive experiences, and mobile technology is the future for news, information, and entertainment consumption.

New technology is providing Canadians with new opportunities. Shifts in technology and consumer habits have created new business models. Partnerships are emerging across the board. With these changes, our government has already taken some very important steps to ensure that our broadcasting system is among the best in the world.

One of our government's most significant commitments to our broadcasting system has been our commitment to funding the CBC.

I'm aware that there are some on this committee who do forget this from time to time, but I'd like to remind them that in the 2004, 2006, and 2008 campaign platforms of our government, and in our throne speeches that followed the successful campaigns of 2006 and 2008, our government made very specific, clear, and simple commitments to CBC/Radio-Canada, and that was that a Conservative government under Prime Minister Harper would maintain or increase funding for the CBC.

As I said, the Minister of Finance has tabled five budgets in this Parliament, and in every single one of those budgets we have kept our word. The CBC currently receives the most secure levels of funding in its history.

In fact, Mr. Chair, I would take this opportunity as well to remind this committee that we maintained that commitment, even though we were elected in 2006, prior to the worst global recession the world has seen since the Second World War. Under tough economic circumstances, we maintained our commitment to the CBC; we maintained our commitment to Canadians to support CBC/Radio-Canada.

Not only have we brought the stability that we said we would, but we've also done so after, obviously, a period of, frankly, cuts from the previous government that were devastating to CBC. Since 2006 we have also delivered steady and predictable funding that Canadians have asked for to the public broadcaster.

This is taxpayers' money, and as a crown corporation, CBC is accountable to Parliament, and, yes, especially to taxpayers. This includes Canadians who wish to file access to information requests with the public broadcaster. Through the Federal Accountability Act that Parliament passed, MPs from all parties worked together to pass measures that have made over 70 different government departments and agencies open to access to information for the very first time. We support access to information and believe it's the public's right to have effective legislation.

The CBC's disagreement with the Information Commissioner on this fact is well-known. Many of these disagreements the CBC has fought in court. Hubert Lacroix I know spoke about these disagreements at this committee back in December.

I'm encouraged by the comments the CBC has made about meeting the standards that are expected of them when it comes to access to information. But I do think that as parliamentarians we can all agree that we could all work together to pass tough measures, and that we would expect that all crown corporations, including CBC/Radio-Canada, comply with these rules.

As I've said, Hubert Lacroix, president and CEO of Société Radio-Canada, has made those commitments that things will improve over time, and we're encouraged by those comments.

When ordinary Canadians pick up their newspaper and they read a story about the CBC, we want to make sure they have full confidence that the CBC is fulfilling these obligations under access to information. I just wanted to put that out there, because I think this is an important element of accountability that our government has put forward. Our government has been concerned in the past with the CBC not following through on those access to information requests, but we look forward to those changes coming in the future.

Like all Canadian broadcasters, and in fact like most organizations, both in the public and private sphere, the CBC has had to make a number of difficult decisions during the past 24 months due to the global economic recession. Just like other Canadian companies, the CBC put forward their recovery plan. The CBC balanced its books, and today its future is extremely bright. This is in part due to the leadership of Mr. Hubert Lacroix, with whom I have a strong relationship and who deserves a great deal of credit for leading the CBC through structural changes that will serve the public broadcaster and Canadians for many years to come.

Let me say a few words about what lies ahead for the CBC. A few weeks ago, a new vision was announced with a new strategic plan to take it to 2015.

I am pleased to say that the Corporation's plan is to focus on regions, on digital content, and on Canadian programming.

Canadians in all communities across the country want to know about what is going on in their own neighbourhoods. They want to hear local news and discussion of local issues - the kind of regional programming that a public broadcaster is uniquely qualified to provide.

Canadians outside of large cities want to be able to benefit from access to premiere cultural programming from across the country on the radio or television.

Canadians want to see themselves reflected in the programming they enjoy.

As our national public broadcaster, the CBC is one of Canada's largest and most important cultural institutions. It's at the heart of Canada's infrastructure. Our government will continue to ensure that the CBC is supported, accountable, effective, and, most of all, ensures that Canadians in all parts of the country are informed, entertained, and connected with one another.

At this point, Mr. Chairman, I'd appreciate the opportunity to speak with you specifically about CBC/Radio-Canada, and I look forward to taking questions from members of the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Minister.

The Minister will have to leave at 4:30, so we have 50 minutes to ask questions and make comments.

We will start with Mr. Rodriguez.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Minister, gentlemen.

Minister, first, I think the premises of your speech were mistaken when it comes to funding. You have also made cuts, the famous $45 million in cuts from various programs. But let's focus on the CBC.

When your colleague the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration, Jason Kenney, left the caucus today, he gave an interview to Lina Dib of the NTR network, that she recorded, in which he talked about Bev Oda and lies. Mr. Kenney said that in any event, the CBC lies all the time. Do you agree with Mr. Kenney?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I have no comment on that. I have not experienced that, but he can speak for himself.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Surely you will be hearing an excerpt, on the news.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I have no comment. Those are other people's comments. I have not had that experience with the CBC.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

You will agree with me that it is a sensitive matter for him to say things like that on the very day when you are coming here to defend that institution and work with the committee for the good of the institution. It is sensitive, particularly when it comes from an influential member of Cabinet.

It is causes even more concern when we know that the CRTC has indicated that it will shortly be starting work on the CBC's licence renewal. Like the public, we think you are taking ideological control of the CRTC through these appointments. That means that the CBC is going to be applying for renewal of its licence to a CRTC that, over time, will be stacked with partisan appointments, including the one you recently made. So there is a lot of concern among the opposition when it comes to the CBC.

You said that Mr. Pentefountas, who has no direct experience, had no conflict of interest and was therefore a good appointment. You know Youppi, the Canadiens mascot in Montreal. I spoke about him recently. He hasn't got any experience either, and no conflict of interest. Would he also be a good appointment?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

First, that isn't what I said. Something has to be corrected.

First you talked about $45 million in cuts in arts and culture. That is entirely false. Look at the figures. They come from budgets you supported. It includes an increase in government funding for arts and culture. The $45 million you're talking about wasn't taken out of the arts. Those funds were transferred to other arts and culture projects, in particular a 20% increase in the budget of the Canada Council for the Arts. We also funded the Place de la Francophonie at the 2010 Vancouver Olympic and Paralympic Games. All of that money has been reinvested in arts and culture.

Second, you talked about the government's appointments. I find it somewhat interesting and frankly weak when you insinuate that our government is making partisan appointments. We're talking about the CBC. Mr. Gingras was appointed under the same process as in Mr. Pentefountas's case. It was the same day and Mr. Gingras was a Liberal Party of Canada candidate in your city, Montreal.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

We can talk about Mr. Gingras. You are stacking the CBC board of directors as well, because, on the question of Mr. Gingras, he also worked and actively campaigned for the Conservative Party in 2008. Perhaps he was a Liberal in the past, but today he is very clearly a Conservative and has been well rewarded for it.

Let's come back to the CBC's five-year strategic plan. Mr. Lacroix was here, and like you, I think he is doing an excellent job, along with the team around him. He presented us with a plan that provides for more Canadian content and more regional programming, and provides for using new platforms, but they have to have the money. He isn't asking for more money, but he says the CBC could not endure cuts. It can't be allowed to happen, it would be catastrophic. Can you guarantee that Mr. Lacroix will have the money needed over the next five years to carry out his action plan?

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Rodriguez.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I would like to say one thing.

As I said in my statement, I have a very strong, healthy, great working relationship with Hubert Lacroix. As I've said, I think he's done fantastic work at Société Radio-Canada. His five-year plan is what the government has asked for.

It's the vision that I think most Canadians have. It's what I've articulated, what we want to see with the CBC, which is a greater shift towards digital content, a greater shift to mobile devices, and more Canadian content. Everything I've read that Kirstine Stewart has said publicly so far, and what I see in the strategic plan so far--if I may be an observer on this, not just the minister--I think is great. I think we want to see more Canadian content at the CBC.

You've asked about funding. You can rest assured that we will continue to maintain our campaign commitment, and we won't do what the Liberals did, which was to cut the CBC by 40%.