Evidence of meeting #16 for Canadian Heritage in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was parks.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Andrew Campbell  Vice-President, External Relations and Visitor Experience, Parks Canada Agency
Daniel Jean  Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Moore

Thank you, Mr. Benskin.

Thank you, Mr. Campbell, for being here with us today and explaining Parks Canada's contribution to this important study.

We will suspend for a few minutes and switch over to our consideration of supplementary estimates.

9:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Moore

We'll resume our meeting.

Today we have with us the Honourable James Moore, Minister of Canadian Heritage, for consideration of the supplementary estimates.

Thank you, Minister, for joining us here today. We look forward to your comments. The floor is yours.

December 1st, 2011 / 9:45 a.m.

Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam B.C.

Conservative

James Moore ConservativeMinister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

It is an honour to be here among you to discuss our government's priorities.

I would also like to point out that your review of Canada's 150th anniversary celebrations is very important to the government. As you know, we want this commemoration to reach all of the regions through its pan-Canadian events and themes that should involve all of the regions of Canada. Your study of this topic is very important. I want to wish you good luck in your review of this project.

I'm here today to discuss with you funding my department is seeking from the Parliament of Canada through the supplementary estimates that will enable us to implement a number of our government's key priorities for Canadians.

With me today are Daniel Jean, deputy minister of Canadian Heritage, and Robert Hertzog, director general of the financial management branch.

In the 2011-12 supplementary estimates (B), we are asking Parliament to approve $165.9 million in additional funding: $8 million in operating expenses, and $157.9 million in grants and contributions. The funds that we're seeking will support programs in various sectors of Canadian society.

Mr. Chair, I'd like to review a few of what I consider to be key initiatives that are addressed in supplementary estimates (B), for which we are seeking the approval of Parliament.

I've already announced our government's plans for commemorating the 200th anniversary of the War of 1812, a war that was a defining event in Canada's history, paving the way for Confederation. The $4.8 million in additional funds will allow us to implement the commemorative projects and events that we have planned, and to support community-based activities across the country.

Over the next three years, our government plans to invest significant funds to increase Canadians' awareness of this defining event in our shared history. These funds will go to pan-Canadian educational campaigns, which will include a national documentary, a travelling museum exhibit, and the naming of October as the month of the commemoration of the War of 1812.

We will support over 100 local events, festivals, and re-enactments across the country, and we're investing in enhanced programming and making significant improvements at key War of 1812 national historic battle sites. We're going to have a permanent War of 1812 monument here in Ottawa, and we're going to have recognition of our Canadian Forces regiments in 1812 ceremonies.

For Sport Canada's hosting program, we are budgeting an increase of $13.4 million. This amount is part of the government's commitment to fund capital projects for the 2015 Pan American and Parapan American Games in Toronto. With the recent conclusion of the 2011 Pan American and Parapan American Games, from which our talented athletes brought home a total of 182 medals, attention is now focused on Toronto as the next host of the games in 2015. As a proud partner in the games, the government will invest up to $500 million through Sport Canada's hosting program. Canada is a proud sport nation with a fantastic sporting tradition, and we are committed to ensuring that our athletes can compete with the world's best.

Sport Canada's hosting program provides funding to help Canadian communities and national sport organizations host world-class international events, such as the Pan American and Parapan American Games. This funding also allows our athletes to compete on home soil, which brings countless benefits to the hosting communities and promotes Canada abroad.

The $100 million in funds that we are also requesting in these estimates are funds for the Canada Media Fund. As you know, the Canada Media Fund helps to ensure that Canadian choices continue to be available on television and on other digital platforms.

The Government of Canada support for Canadian programming has a multiplier effect. The $134 million that we invest in the Canada Media Fund creates an additional—on top of that government investment—$200 million worth of production activity. This leads to 7,000 production jobs across the country and 600 hours of programming available on multiple platforms. In 2010-11, the Canada Media Fund, which combines both the public and the private investments, invested $337 million in Canadian content creation, generating over 2,400 hours of new Canadian programming.

The $15 million in the supplementary funds that we're seeking for the Canada Periodical Fund will support and encourage the creation of Canadian magazines and non-daily newspapers, and help to ensure that Canadians have access to them.

One example of how this fund works is the Newsstand Marketing Project that we helped fund last year. Magazines Canada partnered with regional magazine associations and retailers across the country to increase the presence, selection, and sales of English- and French-Canadian magazines at major and independent newsstands. The plan offers a free digital magazine with the purchase of a single copy of any participating magazine. This plan has not only increased single-copy sales of Canadian magazines, but also increased the profile of small- and medium-sized Canadian magazines in large retail outlets.

Finally, our proposed transfers to the Canada Council for the Arts and the National Arts Centre—$127,000 and $150,000 respectively—will, among other things, support French-language theatre in Canada.

Mr. Chair, while we are seeking these funds, I believe we have shown ourselves to be good stewards of public funds. Despite fiscal restraint, we have accomplished a great deal, and we will continue to manage our budget carefully.

Since I arrived at Heritage Canada, the department has launched an initiative to modernize its operations and find innovative solutions to financial challenges in order to better serve Canadians. We implemented reductions while minimizing the impact on services and programming to Canadians. We have decreased operational spending of the department by 25% since 2009-2010 and have eliminated 445 full-time positions. This means more money directed into the hands of artists and creators, and less money spent on the bureaucracy here in Ottawa. This is good news for the cultural community. My department is smaller, but our investments in culture have increased because of these efforts.

During the recession we were the only country in the G8 not to decrease, not to maintain, but to increase funding to arts and culture. We know that arts and culture play a vital role in the lives of Canadians and in the development of communities throughout the country. We know that culture and heritage help to build strong communities, while also contributing to the economy. Canadian culture represents $46 billion of our gross domestic product. The cultural sector employs some 630,000 people—which means that 4% of all Canadian jobs come from culture.

Our government has clearly shown that we value arts, culture, and Canada's creative economy. We have supported celebrations, concerts, community events, and festivals across the country. And we renewed our five-year funding programs, including those for music, books, and periodicals.

As we modernized our cultural support programs, we adapted them to the digital age, and this change is now bearing fruit. For example, the Experimental Stream of the Canada Media Fund—an innovative public-private partnership—is pushing the boundaries of media consumption for Canadians and building a stronger, ground-breaking cultural industry. Through this fund, we invested $1 million in a project to develop a console game called Papo & Yo. Created by the Montreal-based indie production company Rezolution Pictures, its market release is planned for early 2012. Yet, already, this truly unique game has been nominated for 20 industry awards and has won 6, including 3 top awards at the Electronic Entertainment Expo held in Los Angeles in June. This is but one success story of many.

The highlight of this year for my department was the recent visit of Their Royal Highnesses The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge. The event was tremendously successful, bringing Canadians together across the country. Our website, YouTube videos, and iPhone and BlackBerry apps served as excellent examples of how modern technology can help involve Canadians, especially youth, in events of national significance.

Plans have already begun for celebrating Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II's Diamond Jubilee in 2012. I have already announced the community funding program to support local celebrations and projects and a mobile application to provide information on this key event in our history. We will soon unveil the commemorative medal program, a website, and a social media program.

This historical anniversary is one of many that we will commemorate on the road to 2017—Canada's 150th anniversary.

As I mentioned in my last appearance, we have begun plans and preparations for celebrating this important landmark in our country's history, as well as many of the anniversaries that will be leading up to it. I continue to follow your study, which will be integral in developing our plans for this monumental celebration.

Because we value our heritage and we want to preserve it for generations to come, we again invested over $400,000 this year to fund film acquisition or preservation activities by Library and Archives Canada under the Canadian feature film policy.

In addition, our Canadian Heritage Information Network invested nearly $1.8 million in the development of original online heritage content by museums of all sizes and disciplines. As a result, 51 new online exhibitions will be added to the virtual museum of Canada.

In the area of official languages, we've signed agreements for four provinces to support French language cultural production and presentations.

Also, over the past few years, our investments with respect to education have resulted in new community spaces in 33 schools, 40 new community schools, and 14 community learning centres. There has also been a 10% overall increase in immersion registration by kids.

I'm proud to say that through the endowment incentives program, which leverages private sector donations to arts organizations, our government, since 2006, has provided over $78 million to support endowment funds in Canada, while the private sector has provided over $120 million, for a total of $198 million leveraged in investments in arts and cultural organizations by having a partnership between the Government of Canada and the private sector.

Through the Canada cultural spaces fund, we have funded 609 cultural infrastructure projects in 239 communities across Canada, for a total of approximately $199.4 million.

The Canada arts training fund supports 39 national training schools that provide the highest calibre of artistic training to Canada's most promising artists in a range of disciplines such as ballet, contemporary dance, theatre, and music. Our annual investment in national training institutions is $22.7 million.

I believe my department can be proud of its numerous achievements over the past year. With the approval of the budget before you, we will pursue our efforts on several fronts to show our continued support and commitment to the arts, to culture, to sport, to history, and to heritage.

I will be pleased to work with you on making sure that these projects are fulfilled successfully, and I look forward to your questions.

10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Moore

Thank you, Minister, and thank you for your presentation.

Now we'll move to questions and answers.

Mr. Young is first.

10 a.m.

Conservative

Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for coming here today and for your presentation.

You talked about the plan for commemorating the 200th anniversary of the War of 1812 and the $4.8 million in additional funds that have been put aside for it, including plans for increasing Canadians' awareness of the event. Now, what we've heard on this committee is that in seven of ten provinces, students in high school don't have to study any history or complete any history course in order to graduate.

Perhaps you could expand on why it is important that Canadians, especially young Canadians, be educated about this important historical event?

10 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

There are not great numbers of events pre-Confederation that are pan-Canadian in consequence. A number of other countries, particularly that south of the border, have a large number of events that are constantly celebrated. Young Americans are reminded of those events all the time. This happens in countries around the world as well. In Canada, we don't have many large events.

Without the War of 1812, the French fact in North America is not protected. Without the War of 1812, aboriginal Canadians would have suffered the same fate as American Indians. Without the War of 1812, Canada's territorial integrity would not be defined relative to the United States. Without the War of 1812, you don't have an expression of Canadian identity that sowed the seeds for Confederation in 1867, after the Quebec and Charlottetown conferences.

So it was the beginning of the beginning of the greatest country in the world: it's very important.

10 a.m.

Conservative

Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON

You also mentioned that the government will be funding over 100 local events, festivals, and re-enactments across the country. Will these events take a top-down approach or are we hoping to encourage individuals or groups to take the lead? If it's the latter, what would be the best way for individuals to get involved or to apply for funding?

10 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

There have been some comments in the news, by the way, that the government is spending all this money on the War of 1812 but we have other things that have needs. All the money we're spending on the War of 1812 and the commemoration thereof is from existing Government of Canada funds.

Whether it's the Canada arts presentation fund, the building communities through arts and heritage program, or the Canada cultural spaces fund, what we've done is take existing funds and assess what we expect the demand will be from grassroots organizations across the country. We had a number that we thought would be the proportionate number of asks.

Then, of course, you triage those asks and you ask how many are really central to the goal of commemorating the War of 1812. Then you try to divide how much of that money is going to be required for physical infrastructure, for re-enactments, for educational initiatives, and so on. You come up with a ballpark number and then you have to divide it.

We've taken existing Government of Canada programs and have fenced off an amount of money in each of them for applications for funding for the War of 1812. We're not doing extra funding for the War of 1812 as opposed to doing extra funding for other things; we've taken existing funding, and we've fenced it off for the demand.

Local organizations that are requesting funding for the War of 1812 should certainly contact their members of Parliament, contact me directly, or contact the department. In each of those funding envelopes, there are funds reserved.

I say this all the time, by the way, to organizations that may be here, that may have their representatives here, or that may be paying attention to this conversation: contact the Department of Canadian Heritage. Contact us before you apply for funding. This isn't just within the context of 1812. Contact the department before you apply for funding so that you can design your event, your commemoration, and your plans in concert with existing Government of Canada funding envelopes so they can move forward together. Don't build an event and hope that the Government of Canada.... Moving the machinery of government sometimes is like turning a battleship around. The smarter thing to do is to work with us from the beginning so you can develop your event so that it qualifies for funds as you move forward.

If people are planning specific events for the War of 1812, I would encourage them to contact the Department of Canadian Heritage. We will sit them down with an official from the department and will work through their application from the beginning.

10 a.m.

Conservative

Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON

Thank you.

The idea for a permanent monument to the War of 1812 is a terrific idea. Are you able to tell us more about it now, such as where it may be located in Ottawa and who will design it and those kinds of things?

10 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

Not quite yet. We have two locations we're looking at. One is on Parliament Hill; one is just off Parliament Hill. I can't say exactly where, because there are some financial implications related to where we're looking.

But we do want it to be prominent. We want it to be on the Hill. We want it to be within walking distance of not only members of Parliament and Parliament Hill staffers, but for visiting tourists, who come to Parliament Hill, principally, and other events satellite around that. To have a direct connection to Parliament is important, so right on Parliament Hill or right near Parliament Hill is what we're looking at.

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON

Thank you.

You talked a lot about direct and indirect funding of arts and culture. What other steps has the government taken--Canadian Heritage specifically--to ensure that artists and the creative community as a whole continue to thrive? For example, how have our cultural exports fared?

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

Cultural exports have fared very well. I gave a speech on this just the other day. The numbers escape me now, but cultural exports I know have gone up, in part because of our investments in the Canada Council for the Arts. As you know, we have increased funding to the Canada Council for the Arts by 20%. It is up to $181 million per year.

It's not a small thing to say that our government is the only government in the G-8 that decided not to cut, not to maintain, but to increase funding for arts and culture. In my judgment, the best mechanism by which the government can and should continue to fund culture is through the Canada Council for the Arts, a crown corporation set up by Prime Minister St. Laurent, that is independent and at arm's length from the government.

As Sheila Fraser said when she examined the Canada Council, if every government department, agency, and crown had the same kind of exhaustive peer-review process and thorough evaluation of the way they spend money, she wouldn't have a job. Not only do they have integrity in the way they handle taxpayers' money, but they're seen by the cultural communities in this country as an organization that does a fantastic job of reaching out and ensuring that funds get to diverse programs and projects. That includes supporting artists in their efforts abroad.

As you know, going back to the 2008 campaign, our government ended, for example, the trade routes program. The trade routes program was a $7-million program. The problem was that it cost $5 million to deliver $2 million worth of benefits. It's not quite an exchange we look for or that I think taxpayers look for in a government program, so we ended that program. We didn't kill the money. We transferred the money to the Canada Council. The Canada Council has, if memory serves, 11 or 12 programs directly related to aiding artists in their endeavours to engage markets abroad.

We continue to support artists. The best way to do it is through the Canada Council. The Government of Canada tried it and our exchange rate was $5 million to $2 million, and that was not quite the exchange rate we were looking for.

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Moore

Thank you, Mr. Young.

Mr. Benskin.

10:05 a.m.

NDP

Tyrone Benskin NDP Jeanne-Le Ber, QC

Thank you.

Thank you for your work and thank you for appearing here.

I've had first-hand experience and knowledge of the Canada Council and I agree that it's definitely a model program.

I'm going to switch over to getting some clarification or information on CBC. Yearly we see the adjustment of $60 million in supplementary funding to the CBC. I was wondering if you could clarify what that's targeted toward.

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

Sure. Well, as you'll remember, the Liberals in the 1990s cut the CBC by about $400 million and there was obviously a pretty significant backlash to that. The heritage minister of the day, Sheila Copps, in response to the push-back they got for cutting the CBC....

As a matter of fact, the parliamentary committee at the time was implicated in the consideration of the impact of those cuts. What was designed and implemented for the first time in 2001...actually, excuse me, 20 years ago. The first year was 2001--sorry--but it was designed prior to that. What was designed and implemented was this $60-million programming fund to the CBC, and that money goes directly to programming. That's always been a sunsetter, though. It's up for renewal every single year in every single budget.

So those who argue about the $60 million.... Keep in mind that the CBC receives $1.134 billion per year. Sixty million dollars is not a small amount of money; it's a lot of money. But within the overall context of the enterprise that is Canada's public broadcaster, the $60 million and the projects it funds, that money can be supported and funded through A-base funding to the CBC. So there's a sort of mythology, I think, built up around that $60 million fund, as though it's untouchable and as though to touch that would have an impact on the CBC.

Very often, as you know, when the CBC has come before this very committee, there has been talk about having only straight A-base funding so that the CBC doesn't have to worry every single year as to whether or not a government is not going to renew the $60 million, whether it's a Liberal government or a Conservative government, and so they could have consistent steady funding for multiple years. That's part of the consideration that we have in working with the CBC about what's in the taxpayers' best interests and also what's in the best interests of the public broadcaster for a consistent funding envelope for multiple years.

10:10 a.m.

NDP

Tyrone Benskin NDP Jeanne-Le Ber, QC

That basically answered my second question, so thank you for anticipating that.

With the anticipated 5% or 10% cuts, would this $60 million be affected by that? That goes directly to programming, as I understand it. Is that right?

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

Yes, but.... The question is about the CBC.... This is not an evasion, but I'm trying set up the way in which we're thinking about funding for the CBC. Their request has always been--always--steady funding, stable funding, and predictable funding. The CBC's funding over years could be at different levels, but what they most want is a plan that they can embrace and have predictable funding for.

As you know, they have their plan for 2015. I've supported that plan, the 2015 plan. The three principle elements of the 2015 plan that I think need to be supported and embraced by Canadians are these.

One is the continued transition to digital technology, embracing digital technology, getting things.... As you know, as a French-speaking Canadian from British Columbia, I want to listen to CBC radio out of Drummondville. I want to know what's happening in Quebec City.

Without the CBC, there's no French-language radio in British Columbia. I have four nieces, all of whom are in French-immersion schooling. My sister is a French teacher in British Columbia: how do they get French content for the classroom so they can try to get kids thinking about how French is used in everyday life? It's through the CBC. So that component is essential. The way that you do that, going forward, is through digital technology. The digital component of the 2015 plan is essential and smart and, by the way, saves taxpayers millions of dollars.

The second component is making the CBC, from top to bottom, all-Canadian: Canadian producers, creators, screenwriters, actors, and performers have all wanted that. They want Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune off the air at CBC. The 2015 plan makes the CBC all-Canadian.

The third thing is the that CBC, in the 2015 plan, stays in the regions rather than having a massive footprint in downtown Toronto and Montreal and even a large footprint in Vancouver. It's to get out into the regions to connect Canadians and to stay in the regions. That's essential.

Those are the three central plans of the 2015 plan.

This is my roundabout way of getting to your point. The way we're thinking about it is that the CBC, through their board of directors, has approved their 2015 plan. This is a plan that we support and have been pushing for and hoping that the CBC would implement for a long time. It is: staying in regions; digital technology; and protecting their mandate to ensure that it's all-Canadian programming.

Those are the three things that we wanted the CBC to do. They've done it with their 2015 plan. Now that they have their 2015 plan, the question is, how much money do they need to implement that plan? And in the budget, they will have enough funding to deliver that plan.

10:10 a.m.

NDP

Tyrone Benskin NDP Jeanne-Le Ber, QC

Thank you.

Whatever time I have left, I'll pass on to Pierre.

10:10 a.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC

Mr. Moore, you started your presentation by stressing the importance of Canada's 150th celebrations. As I went through the estimates, I saw nothing specific for the 150th anniversary.

Will an amount eventually be allocated to an ad hoc committee for the 150th celebrations?

In light of all the issues that fall under your department and under this committee, it is unacceptable that all we have been talking about for the past seven months is Canada's 150th anniversary celebrations.

Is it possible that an amount will be allocated to strike an ad hoc committee to work on the 150th anniversary celebrations? Those celebrations are very important, but they have completely taken over this committee's agenda.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

I'm not sure if an ad hoc committee is the best way to go. You have to understand that the 150th anniversary will be celebrated in five and a half years. We have a lot of time to come up with programming for all of Canada to include all the regions.

The committee is studying this and I hope that we will have a report or a list of recommendations. Specific events or even ideas for programming or investments might help us.

I feel that if we were to specifically say that these are the exact amounts and here is a committee... If the government were to prejudge the committee's work, you would probably say that the government is arrogant and that it has no respect for the efforts of the committee members. That's not what we want.

In all honesty, we want Canadians in 2017 to see the programming across Canada and say that the plan is just right for Canada, that it is not to the right or to the left, that it is far from politics, ideology, games and bickering.

That is why we want a careful and sensible study from you.

10:15 a.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC

Do you want us to just talk about that?

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

It's up to you.

10:15 a.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC

With a Conservative majority in the committee, it is more difficult.

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

I am not a member on your committee, but you can decide to study whatever you want. If you want to do a study on the Canada Council for the Arts or the national anthem, it is your business.

10:15 a.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC

Would that be useful?