Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 20th, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Good morning, everybody.

Welcome to the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage. Today we are studying Canada's 150th anniversary, which is going to take place in 2017.

I'm very pleased to have with us this morning the Minister of Canadian Heritage, the Honourable James Moore, as well as the deputy minister, Daniel Jean. Thanks to both of you for being here with us today.

The minister will be here until 9:45 and the deputy minister until 10:45. We have left the last 15 minutes for committee business.

With that, Minister, welcome to the committee. We look forward to your remarks and our question and answer session.

[James Moore, Conservative, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'm just looking at the clock and I'm more than glad to stay an extra five minutes. I'm sorry I was a little late. I just have to make it to the House for House duty at 10 o'clock, so I'll extend this by five minutes. That's only fair.

Thank you for the opportunity to be here. I'd like to start by congratulating you, Chair, for your new assignment and your election as chair of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage. I know you'll do a great job.

To the members of the committee who were on this committee in the previous Parliament, congratulations on your reappointment.

New members, welcome to one of the best committees of Parliament, which studies things that are important to all Canadians, particularly with regard to culture and national unity, subjects that are important to all Canadians.

By examining important issues in our society, this committee gives Canadians of all backgrounds the opportunity to be heard and helps us ministers and members of Parliament do a better job. I hope, as the session of Parliament begins, to establish a productive working relationship with you.

Today, I would like to talk to you about our government's plans and preparations for celebrating several anniversaries that will lead up to the celebration of the 150th anniversary of Confederation in 2017. I am joined here today by Daniel Jean, Deputy Minister of Canadian Heritage, and a few officials who will be happy to answer your questions afterwards.

Let me begin by saying that obviously celebrations and anniversaries of the scale of a 150th don't often come around for countries around the world. Indeed, our government believes this is a milestone that should be acknowledged and celebrated in a big way all across this country.

Some of you will have personal memories of the celebrations of 1967, which obviously brought to Canada a great sense of pride in our history. I believe that the landmark event that is Canada's 150th birthday is even more worthy of meaningful celebrations and lasting memories. That is why I'm very pleased that this committee has taken it on as one of its first areas of consideration in this new Parliament.

The year should be an occasion for reflecting on what we have achieved as a relatively young country, and it should be an opportunity to promote a strong sense of pride and belonging for all Canadians. Past events have demonstrated Canadians' enthusiasm for getting involved in large-scale celebrations of national significance.

The 400th anniversary of the founding of Quebec City was celebrated across the country, and Canadians gained a deeper insight into our country's origins and the importance of this great Canadian city.

More recently, we saw patriotism reach an all-time high as we got behind our athletes who revelled in the success of the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games on the west coast.

Also, the three royal visits over the past two years have also united Canadians from coast to coast to coast in embracing our past and expressing our hopes for this important institution in the future.

These celebrations allowed people across the country and visitors from around the world to discover Canada and its history, landscape, and culture, our artists, our communities, and our official languages. They gave us an opportunity as Canadians to express our deep pride and strength across the country.

Canada's 150th has the potential to be an even greater celebration than what we've seen, in every respect, because it will in fact involve all Canadians from all communities of all sizes in projects and celebrations of every description that will not only honour our past, but also inspire a bright future.

Our government understands the importance of the history of the symbols of heritage, and the values that unite Canadians as a great nation. The Speech from the Throne states it quite clearly: Canadians are united by core values, a shared history, and a sense of common purpose. Our government will join Canadians in celebrating our heritage, in promoting our values, and in standing for what is right on the world stage.

In the next few years, Canada will celebrate some incredible milestones. And they will all culminate in Canada's 150th birthday in 2017. This anniversary represents an opportunity to celebrate major events that have shaped our history and contributed to our national identity.

Clearly, however, the most important thing for us to continue to tackle is to continue to work together to have this committee stir up ideas, to bring witnesses before this committee who have great ideas on how Parliament can contribute to a national dialogue on how we move forward. There will be commemorations that will take place over the next few years that will allow us to build momentum toward our 150th anniversary and we'll be chipping in and supporting them across the country.

Common themes that will tie these milestones together include: responsible government, democracy, and freedom; strong symbols and solid institutions; rights and duties of citizenship, a shared commitment to fellow citizens and the rule of law; our veterans, a proud military history rooted in sacrifice and service to our country; and ourselves as everyday Canadians who make contributions every day in every way to the evolution of our country.

The anniversaries that will serve as signposts along the way to 2017 will remind us of the important events, key battles, significant people, and major accomplishments that shaped our great country and our identity. Our government will highlight these anniversaries to strengthen national identity and help build a shared understanding of Canadian history.

As you know, just last week, I announced our government's plans for commemorating the most imminent—and one of the most significant—anniversaries: the 200th anniversary of the declaration of the War of 1812. The war was a defining event in Canada's history. Without the War of 1812, Canada as we know it would not exist. Without the War of 1812, the French fact in our country would not exist as it does today. Without the War of 1812, the identity of our aboriginal population would have been fundamentally changed. The War of 1812 paved the way for Confederation, and it was instrumental in the creation of the Canadian military. Those who fought for Canada are Canadian heroes. People like Sir Isaac Brock, Charles-Michel de Salaberry, Tecumseh, and Laura Secord. The War of 1812 was the fight for Canada, and commemorating the war is important.

That's why over the next three years our government will be investing significant funds to increase Canadians' awareness of this defining event in our history. These funds will go to pan-Canadian educational campaigns, including a national documentary, a travelling museum exhibit, and the naming of October as the official month of commemoration of the War of 1812, as well as upgrading over 40 historic sites and supporting 100 local events, festivals, and re-enactments across the country.

As well, we're going to have a permanent memorial in Ottawa for the War of 1812 to honour Canadian heroes, and we're going to have recognition of our Canadian Forces regiments in 1812 ceremonies.

We will encourage Canadians to mark other key anniversaries in the next few years as well, so we can learn more about our history and our accomplishments.

Next year, we will celebrate the 60th anniversary of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II's ascension to the throne--her diamond jubilee.

In the coming years, we will also remember the participation of Canadians in the First and Second World Wars, the creation of several Canadian regiments, and major battles that have punctuated Canadian military history.

We will mark the birthdays of such architects of our country and of Confederation as Sir John A. Macdonald and Sir George-Étienne Cartier. We will commemorate key events that allowed our ancestors to lay the foundations of our country, such as the Charlottetown and Quebec City conferences and the establishment of the first responsible government in Canada. And we will celebrate great achievements that have changed the face of our country and our society, like the establishment of a colony near Red River, the Canadian Arctic expedition, granting women's right to vote, and adopting our national flag.

Other upcoming anniversaries that have marked our history include the 100th anniversary of the Grey Cup, the 100th anniversary of the Battle of Vimy Ridge, the 100th anniversary of the NHL, and the 25th anniversary of the North American Free Trade Agreement. In 2017, all these celebrations will culminate in the 150th anniversary of Confederation.

Our government wants the 150th celebrations in 2017 to inspire just as much pride and national sense of identity and belonging as the centennial celebrations in 1967 and Vancouver 2010 put together. We want them to leave a lasting memory in the minds and hearts of all Canadians. That's why this committee's undertaking of the study to bring forward ideas and Canadians who have thoughts and considerations on how we might best do this is very important.

I want to underline our government's commitment to our throne speech commitment to unite Canadians from coast to coast in this moment of national celebration. I think it's a great way to start this committee's consideration of events related to Canada's heritage by working on an issue that is I think beyond partisanship but is something in which all Canadians will be more than anxious to take part for the benefit of Canada's future.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Excuse my sore throat.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Minister Moore.

We'll begin our rounds of questioning.

I'll remind you that Minister Moore is here today discussing the 150th anniversary of our country, so I would ask the committee members to keep the questions relatively on that topic. I'm sure Minister Moore will be appearing before this committee in the future on other topics.

With that, Mr. Young, you have seven minutes.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for coming here today. I appreciate it.

You talked about Canada's celebration of some incredible milestones leading up to 2017. In the past two weeks, the buzz about the War of 1812 has been growing in the media. Could you please tell the committee why it's important for Canadians to commemorate the War of 1812?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you for the question.

Well, there are two things. I mentioned it in my speech, but it really needs to be underlined because I know there were a couple—not many—of editorials that brought doubt to the purpose of our celebration and commemoration of the War of 1812.

There are very few moments pre-Confederation, pre-1867, that are pan-Canadian in consequence. and that in my judgment Canadians really have not been taught about in our classrooms. Did you know that, sadly, in only three of Canada's ten provinces is it mandatory to take a history class in order to graduate from high school? The three are Ontario, Quebec, and New Brunswick. Even that history is a bit shaky in terms of how one might think of a history class.

Very few Canadians really are taught about the importance of the War of 1812. I think that as a foundational moment going into 1867, it seemed only appropriate to talk about the 200th anniversary of the War of 1812 as we head into 2017, so we highlighted that.

There are core aspects of the War of 1812 that I think are not well enough understood and that we hope will just.... The things I'm about to say I hope just trip off the tongue when Canadians are asked why the War of 1812 matters. It matters because it defined Canada's territorial integrity and our independence from the United States. The War of 1812 was important because without the War of 1812 the French fact is not protected in North America. Without the War of 1812, aboriginal Canadians would have probably suffered the same future as the American Indians did. So without the War of 1812, you don't get the defining moment of Canada's territorial and political integrity, where we're independent from the United States, independent from Europe, and set on a course toward Confederation in 1867. It is a seminal moment in the development of Canada and not very many Canadians, especially young Canadians, are taught that in school. I think that's a shame.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Can you please tell the committee what the government is doing to promote the telling of the history of the War of 1812?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Well, we have a program, and it's actually across a number of government departments. In my department, the Department of Canadian Heritage, we are taking the lead on this, but Parks Canada is also involved.

We have historic sites. Last week I was down at Fort George in Niagara-on-the Lake. I visited Fort Erie, Fort York, Fort Mississauga, and many other sites. There are 40 historic sites across the country related to the War of 1812.

We have over 100 community events that are going to take place. We're going to be partnering with community groups.

The total cost to taxpayers of all this—we've been very upfront about it—is about $28 million. That's over the course of about four years. By the way, it's a very small amount relative to what the demand is, as is often the case, because for many communities--many aboriginal communities and many of those local communities where they saw the actual fighting--these are real moments of local identity, and what we want to have happen is to have this understood across the country.

As well, the footprint of the war was relatively small; it was in southwestern Ontario up to parts of Quebec. But the impact of the war was pan-Canadian in consequence, which is why we're supporting documentaries and educational materials that will be spread across the country.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

One of the best ways to connect with young people is social media. Are you doing anything with social media to connect with our young people?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Indeed. We've experimented in the past with iPhone and iPad apps and mobile sites for BlackBerrys. I'm not convinced about the BlackBerry app store yet, its fluency, and it's very difficult to get.... I'm a big fan of the BlackBerry, but....

So what we did, actually, with the visit by the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge this year was develop an iPad app. It works on both iPad and iPhone, of course. It was one of the top downloaded apps in all of Canada. It was incredibly popular. It went very well.

So if people are curious, they can go to 1812.gc.ca and download the iPhone and iPad apps and also have access to a mobile site for all BlackBerrys and Android phones. You can have access to all the information related to the War of 1812: historic sites related to the War of 1812, documents, key moments, and timelines of history. Everything that you would expect to be in there, we've jammed in there. Also, we have a mobile site that will be updated and modernized throughout the coming couple of years as we commemorate this, and of course there are Twitter, Facebook, and websites, etc.

I come from a family of teachers. If you don't make educational materials as convenient as possible for young Canadians, you often miss your mark in trying to reach new audiences. We don't want to invest all this money and put so much momentum behind a project and not really hit our key audience. So the answer is yes.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Can you please explain how our Canadian heritage institutions such as museums and the CBC will be used to promote the 150th anniversary?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

So far there has been unanimity of energy and commitment by all of our institutions and crown corporations related to the Department of Canadian Heritage on projects related to Canada 2017.

For the people who we appoint to the boards of our national museums, to the CBC, to Library and Archives Canada, and to all these institutions, we generally look for people who are really forward-leaning, who are really enthusiastic about film, if we're appointing to Telefilm or the NFB, or who are really enthusiastic about the pan-Canadian infrastructure that is the CBC for disseminating Canadian information to Canadians. We try to appoint people who are thoughtful, who think outside of the box, who bring new ideas to the table, who challenge the status quo, and who come up with thoughtful entrepreneurial ideas on how to spread things.

For example, this year is the CBC's 75th anniversary. They produced and showed a phenomenal show on John A. Macdonald that was I think almost unanimously critically acclaimed for its quality. They've engaged in this process. They're looking forward to 2017.

Our national museums are planning travelling exhibits and staging them out. I know that the War Museum, the Museum of Civilization, and the National Gallery all have different travelling exhibits they're preparing, from now through 2017. They are very forward-leaning and hopeful about what they can accomplish.

I think everybody's using 2017 as a moment to cantilever on all kinds of really great programs. I think we'll get Canada's collections, our history, our art, and our incredible diversity of educational materials all across the country. Partnerships with local and regional museums are something that everybody is looking forward to.

I can say in full sincerity that I have nothing but good things to say about Canada's partners and the way in which they are really enthusiastically tackling 2017.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Young.

Mr. Benskin.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Moore. It's a pleasure to have you here and to speak to you on this subject.

I've said at this committee a number of times that you're not going to find a bigger flag-waver than me, especially when it comes to Canadian identity and Canadian culture.

We are celebrating the 150th anniversary in 2017, but the elements that would make up Canada existed a long time before that. I'm sure you're aware that 2017 is also the 375th anniversary of the founding of Montreal.

I was wondering if there were any plans to roll that into the celebrations of the 150th anniversary.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

There are plans.

By the way, it's refreshing to have a proud Canadian patriot on the opposition benches, as opposed to what we've seen over the past decade, and congratulations on your appointment.

The answer is yes, but all these things have to be done in partnership, and I think it worked very well in the 400th anniversary of Quebec City.

Certainly, the last thing Quebeckers want—or any Canadian wants—is the federal government and a heritage minister who is from Vancouver going into Montreal to say, “Here's how we envision things”. It's not how you do it. It's not respectful. It's not the right way to do it, so we work in partnership.

The City of Montreal, which is really one of the cultural capitals of the planet, obviously is going to have a very ambitious, very large, and very exciting program. I'm sure you know that Montreal is home to the largest comedy festival in the world, the largest jazz festival in the world, and the second-largest—they argue the largest, but I think it's the second-largest—St. Patrick's Day on the planet.

Montreal does everything big, and they do it very well, I think, certainly on the cultural side. I'm looking forward to working with the mayor. I know you're the heritage critic for the opposition, but you come from Montreal, so working with you on specific projects will add a pan-Canadian scope to Canada's second-largest city but will also be respectful of the fact that this is a Montreal celebration as much as it is a Canadian one.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

That's great.

Along the same lines, Parks Canada is responsible for the Lachine Canal area, for example, which is both historic and a tourist attraction. Do you have any thoughts on how that might be developed a bit further from Parks Canada...?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I don't know enough about the Lachine Canal. Within the context of heritage—by the way, this is something that's important to know, because I get questions all the time from colleagues who ask me about this—for the most part, the physical infrastructure of all our historic sites, commemorations, and parks is managed by Parks Canada, which is to say the Minister of the Environment.

Within the context of 2017 and these kinds of things, it would be valuable to have the head of Parks Canada and/or Peter Kent, the Minister of the Environment, here before the committee to talk about that.

I haven't heard anything about a proposal on the Lachine Canal.

Have you heard anything about that?

[Daniel Jean, Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage]

We can follow up.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Yes. We can follow up.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I'm going to leave the more detailed questioning on this aspect to Marjolaine, but most recently the excavation in Old Montreal has uncovered the remnants of Parliament, when Parliament was in Montreal. I think it's part of the Musée Pointe-à-Callière and that falls squarely into Heritage. Would you think there would be a possibility of helping to bring that up to standard to help the celebration?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

It could. The rescuing of physical material would usually fall under Parks Canada. At Heritage...if they uncover something and they want to have an event to commemorate their finding something and to draw people's attention to it, we can fund that. I'm thinking about infrastructure in general.

We also have the cultural spaces fund, which is physical infrastructure. That's $30 million per year across the country and that's not a lot of money when you think about the size of Canada. It's $30 million per year for physical infrastructure. The average grant that comes out of that is about $150,000 per year, and that usually goes to things like fire suppression equipment, new seats in theatres, or new stained glass windows. If they find something physical importance that they want to incorporate into a new infrastructure component of a facility, then that's something we could fund.

It can't come from a member of Parliament, but if an organization wants to apply for funding for a physical infrastructure improvement of cultural significance, you'd do it through the cultural spaces fund. I always tell people—this is for all members—that if somebody has a project like that, don't design your project. Make an application and hope for the best. Get rejected, get frustrated, come back, and then go through this endless process.

We have regional offices at the Department of Canadian Heritage. I always tell people to sit down with the department and the bureaucracy first. This is where members of Parliament have a role. If somebody has an idea, they'll come to you. You can come to me and we'll get a regional person from the Department of Canadian Heritage to sit down with the proponent that has this kind of project, and we design the project so that it fits the criteria of the program. This way, we can get rid of the back-and-forth, which only frustrates local and small organizations that are volunteer organizations.

These organizations--where the president is also the treasurer is also the accountant and is also the acting lawyer--don't have the capacity for all of this stress and paperwork. Sit down with us, if you have these organizations for the Lachine Canal or others sit down with you, and sit down with the Department of Canadian Heritage. Find a project. Make it fit the program and move forward. That's far more efficient and has a much higher success rate.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

You brought up the educational aspect. We celebrate Canada as being a multicultural environment, but a lot of people feel that the multicultural aspect of Canada is a more recent thing. I'm wondering what plans there are to highlight the contribution of other cultures to the building of Canada, such as the Chinese community in the building of the railroad, or the 10% of the United Empire Loyalists who were of African descent and whose descendants still reside in Halifax and Nova Scotia.

What kind of work will be done to highlight that aspect of Canadian history?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

We will make sure that the package we bring forward will be balanced in that way. You mentioned Chinese Canadians. My province wouldn't be in Confederation without the contributions and sacrifice of Chinese Canadians. My district has more Korean Canadians than any other riding in Canada, and there's a brand-new Korea Day celebration in my community.

I know that members of Parliament sometimes have frustrations about this. Organizations apply for, say, $10,000 from the Department of Canadian Heritage for an annual event, they qualify for $7,000, we end up giving $4,000, and organizations are disappointed. One of the reasons we have downward pressure on our ability to fund a lot of cultural events across the country is that so many new Canadians are getting engaged. This is a country where we actually celebrate and promote our diversity, and this is a good thing. They find out they can go to the Department of Canadian Heritage for some cash to have a heritage day. I think that's great.

We have diverse organizations stepping up and asking for a little help and a little support to get these different organizations off the ground. Of course we approve these, but it's causing a pressure on our funding structure. We're well aware of the diversity that exists across the country, and certainly, we don't want 2017 to just be about looking back 150 years and saying “French, English, aboriginal”. It's also multicultural, and new Canadians are the backbone of so many communities across the country.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Benskin.

Now we'll go on to you, Mr. Simms.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Thank you.

Thank you, Minister.

I have a Halls cough drop by the way, if you want a Halls...?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Will digital locks be part of 2017? Is that what you're saying?

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

No, I'm not going to bring up any laws at this point.

I would love to say that I'm the biggest flag-waver but I'm only five-foot-four, so.... But I do agree with what you said about a decade of shenanigans. It's refreshing to see because it would have been interesting otherwise if the Bloc had been here. But anyway, I digress.

In my hometown, we have a town hall that was built in 1967. It has a wonderful little plaque there celebrating the centennial. We have a few stadiums. I think the RInC program derived from the idea of helping to keep these infrastructure projects going after 1967.

Have we thought about what a legacy is going to be in physical infrastructure? I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing. Are we going to drift away from that and put more money into a legacy of films, maybe things we do through the CBC or whatever? Have you thought about that at this point?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

The physical infrastructure part is hard. You're right: I think if you ask most people for a quick response about the legacy of 1967, they'll point to the physical infrastructure. You can't go very far in this country without finding a centennial arena, a centennial park, a centennial bridge, a centennial waterfront, etc. They're now 50 years old. Of course, as you can appreciate, many of these were built in a rush to meet the deadline of 1967, as infrastructure projects are often put on the clock.

So a lot of those pieces of infrastructure are in tough shape, which is part of why we had the RInC program. It was part of the targeting of our stimulus infrastructure money in the economic action plan. We are doing a reassessment of all those projects. It wouldn't exactly be a great 150th celebration to have the infrastructure from the 100th celebration falling apart. We want to do a full assessment of how these arenas are doing and what part the government can take in that.

I think it's important for all communities and all members of Parliament to look around your districts, look around your riding--you mentioned the hall in your riding--and find projects that were funded as part of the centennial to see whether or not they could qualify for things like I just described to Tyrone, such as the infrastructure upgrades to upgrade things and to keep them seismically safe and the fire-suppression equipment and so on. We are looking at that.

As you know, technology comes, technology goes. A lot of cultural legacy things.... For example, to go back to the War of 1812, in 1998, if memory serves, we had a four-part series on the war of 1812. Obviously the story still holds up and the production value still holds up,but most copies of that movie are in 4:3 aspect ratio, not widescreen. So it's actually difficult to get that film to make sense on most people's televisions now. I think that for a lot of people, when they're watching their TVs and bring up a show that's in 4:3, they instantly think it's outdated. That's a small way of answering....

Yes, we want to invest in cultural events and legacy projects like films and documentaries that are important to Canadians,but whether or not they'll have saliency 50 years after this is hard to say.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Have you thought about having programs like the P3 model to entice major companies to get involved with a particular project? I'm not averse to that, quite frankly. I think that in many cases P3s work, but if you want to do it under the funding envelope of 150th.... I mean, that's what the Olympics were all about, right?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I plug this book often, Le Facteur C by Simon Brault, who is the vice-chair of the Canada Council for the Arts, and he makes the very passionate and precise argument that culture in Canada does not survive without the involvement of the private sector. It just doesn't. Canada is the second largest country in the world in terms of land mass and the 36th largest in terms of population. You must have buy-in and cooperation from all levels of government and the private sector to support and promote Canadian culture. Otherwise, it doesn't have momentum. Yes, private sector involvement is going to be essential, certainly on the infrastructure side, but on other projects as well.

Look at TIFF in Toronto and the Bell Lightbox. Because of the Bell Lightbox--and it's a P3 and the private sector is involved--they now have a world-class institution for film that Ryerson University and U of T use. They can screen films of all sizes and all audience dimensions. It's now an institution now for teaching and learning because the private sector is involved. I think you're right. I think those who may ideologically just push back and say that this is about Canada, and we shouldn't have the private sector involved, completely miss the point about the pressure on a country this size to have the private sector evolve and be the opportunity that exists of involving the private sector in cultural projects.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

You have a minute and a half, Mr. Simms.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

That's great.

When you envision this 150-year celebration.... I mean, 1812 is one thing, in that it's fairly focused and we know what we want to do. This one is not so focused. To celebrate 150 years, you celebrate its people and its contributors, but the other aspect of it is that you celebrate different cultures within one broad mix.

Being from Newfoundland and Labrador, that's one. The aboriginal community, the north.... How do you subdivide this 150th celebration? Have you gone as far as to say there are certain categories of the themes we have here or am I going too far ahead?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

No, you're just a little abstract.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

You know what, that's on my resumé, I swear.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Maybe I'll answer it this way. My responsibility as Minister of Canadian Heritage isn't to say “here's what Canada is” and jam it down your throat, or “unless you share our narrative, you won't get funding”. That's not how we do things.

“I am a Canadian because...”. That sentence gets ended in very different ways in different parts of this country. Daniel Jean is a francophone. I'm an anglophone from the west coast of British Columbia, so it means a very different thing to me. I'm Irish, Scottish, English, and German, and I speak both official languages. I have a different perspective of things, a different lens.

Other Canadians have a very different experience. Some people come from very tragic circumstances. They're first-generation Canadian and they come here and they're making a go of it and they have a great thing to celebrate. Some people come here from other parts of the world full of hope and aspiration, and their experience, linguistically and culturally, is very different from mine; it could be completely foreign to me in many ways.

The sentence “I am proud to be Canadian because...” gets finished in different ways, and people should have a full sense of their own identity within Canada. I think that's important.

That said, we do have things we believe in and that we identify with collectively as Canadians. We do believe in democracy, in human rights, in institutions. It's a balancing act, but people balance it in their own ways.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

The narrative is quite broad here; this is what I'm trying to say. I don't know how you begin to do that. I'm not so much offering an opinion as questioning it myself. When I thought about this, I thought, where does one start?

I suppose you start maybe with infrastructure, maybe with what the general themes are. Everybody wants to play a part in it. I would love to celebrate Newfoundland and Labrador as “you're saving the best for last”—as in joining this country—but, you know, I understand....

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

On that note, Mr. Simms, we're a minute over.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Well, I got in my province, I suppose,

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Mr. Brown.

[Gord Brown, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Minister, for being here today.

You mentioned the Sir John A. Macdonald program. I truly enjoyed that. It was a great opportunity for many Canadians to learn about the history in that period. I'm left wanting more. It only went up to 1864, and there's so much more history that involves Sir John A. Macdonald. Hopefully, we will see a continuation of that program from the CBC.

Also, I just want to note that the first battle of the War of 1812 actually happened in my hometown of Gananoque. It was a raid by Americans in September of 1812. In my riding, a lot of things happened during the War of 1812, so I am looking forward to those commemorations. I know that the government is doing a lot to support this, so congratulations to you and the government.

Minister, the country of Canada has a rich and diverse history. Maybe you can talk a bit about the importance of promoting and encouraging our citizens to learn even more about Canadian history.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

On the Sir John A. Macdonald program and the CBC, there's more of a barrier between me and the CBC than members of Parliament and the CBC, you should know, because they're a crown corporation for which I am responsible. We provide funding oversight. I'm responsible for the Broadcasting Act that governs the CBC, but they're not a government broadcaster. I don't pick up the phone and tell them what they should show and what they should show less. That's for the board and Canadians to talk about.

Speaking as a Canadian, not as the Minister of Heritage, I agree with you that the program on Sir John A. Macdonald was fantastic. I actually think that Canadians are calling the CBC to say they'd like to see more and to learn more about their founders and the great moments in Canadian history. We need more of these dramatizations that are rooted in fact.

If anybody agrees with that sentiment, I encourage you to write to Hubert Lacroix, the board at the CBC, and Kirstine Stewart in English programming--they're still doing a job search for the head of French language programming at CBC--and encourage them to do more.

The second part of your question was on why it is important. Not to be too political, but the Bloc Québécois was defeated in the last election campaign. But they weren't wiped out. There's still a large number of Canadians who don't fully feel part of the Canadian family, and I think we need to do better than that. I think one of the reasons is that we don't teach history; we don't teach a pan-Canadian narrative of Canadian history.

I think we very often identify ourselves with our community. Only because it's obvious, and we've just talked about it, is the War of 1812. When you go to Niagara-on-the-Lake and Fort George—it's a city of 25,000 or so people in Niagara-on-the-Lake.... Fort George has 15,000 school kids going through it every year. This coming year that will double as a consequence of the 200th anniversary. Niagara-on-the-Lake people very much understand Queenston Heights, Sir Isaac Brock, Fort George, what mattered, and what happened. But as soon as you get beyond there, people don't know, and I find that's true not just of the War of 1812, but across the country.

People know their local history very well. I know about Captain Vancouver and what happened in Port Moody. I can tell you to a T what happened in my hometown, but I couldn't say the same thing about Gander. I know about Cupids because we celebrated that, but I couldn't tell you about the pre-history of Gananoque. We need to do a better job of that.

We are working on proposals on Canadian history that will be very ambitious about teaching Canada's history. I'll have more to say on that in the future.

[Gord Brown, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville, ON]

That's good news.

Being from Vancouver, you know about the celebration that was the Vancouver Olympics and the huge success that had in unifying Canadians. It really ushered in a new era of pride in Canada. An example is the torch relay that went across the country. I had the opportunity to participate in some of the celebrations around that.

Maybe you can talk a bit about what happened with the Olympic experience and how we can take those lessons that were learned in 2010 and apply them in 2017.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

The big take-away is that everybody knew Canadians would rally around the athletes if hockey both for men and for women went the way it did: seven games against the Americans--growl--Sidney Crosby scoring the goal, and overtime. We all knew the Canadians would just rise up, jersey sales would go through the roof, and it would be an historic moment.

To be honest, the biggest surprise for me--which shouldn't have been a surprise--was the Cultural Olympiad, which included the torch relay and cost so little money. People have almost as much memory about the torch relay coming through their town as they do about the athletic components of the game. Everybody remembers when the torch came through. It came through my riding at the crack of dawn. It was actually ridiculous because it was dark, but there were school kids lined up at five in the morning by the side of the road in a dumping, awful Vancouver rain in January. I was standing there with them. They had their little red mitts and frozen cheeks and they were waving at the torch going by. They loved it. All those kids will remember it.

On top of that, we had the Place de la Francophonie, which was a $7-million investment by the Government of Canada over the course of the Olympic and Paralympic Games to have a French quarter during the games. As you know, bilingualism was a big part of the debate in the Olympics.

When I went to the Place de la Francophonie it was full every single night, and 80% of the people were anglophones, standing there and cheering, loving Roch Voisine, Stéphanie Lapointe, and all the great Quebec artists who were there. They were anglophones seeing French Canadian music for the first time, with Quebeckers standing up there with their brilliant talent, just strumming amazing songs. English Canadians were saying that it was unbelievable, that they had heard that on the radio out here. “Damn”, they said, “we have some pretty impressive people in this country”.

That surprised me, as did the Cultural Olympiad across the board, which cost so little money. You would go to a hockey game or the curling rink, come out and have dinner, and then want to do something to keep the party going. People had the opportunity to see Jim Cuddy, Dallas Green, and all these great groups: Canadian talent in a Canadian venue in a Canadian city before a world audience. It was absolutely the icing on the cake, and the smallest amount of money we spent on the Olympics was for the Cultural Olympiad. Everybody can tell you about a sport they saw, the torch relay, and the brilliant Canadian artists they had the opportunity to see for the first time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Brown.

Mr. Nantel will begin our five-minute rounds.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Mr. Moore, I'd first like to thank you for being here this morning.

I would like to ask you what was planned. What's the next step for the more specific thematic direction? For example, have directors been asked or people who would have a more lyrical vision of the big picture for these celebrations?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

On one side, the theme must be something that can be received anywhere in the country. It's the 150th anniversary. For most Canadians, that's enough. But I understand what you are talking about.

It's difficult to have a national theme that involves all regions and that relates to the great diversity of the programming that we'll have in 2017. Perhaps you could discuss that with your witnesses here, in committee.

Our role as leader on this issue means that we are approaching all the departments and institutions, whether it's the Department of Finance, Agriculture, Industry, the Environment or Parks Canada, and asking them what they have planned.

Once we have all the elements on the table, we will be able to find an appropriate theme.

I can assure you that the main theme of 2017 for the 150th anniversary will be something pan-Canadian that inspires, speaks of the past and of the future and that will no doubt be able to involve all of Canada's regions and perspectives.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

I ask you this question because, earlier, you mentioned that there were various eligibility criteria for submitting plans. Can you already say what these criteria are?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

There are a number of criteria. It depends on the program we're talking about. As you know, it must respect Canada's two official languages and must be open to the public. It depends on the project.

Some projects receive part of their funding from the private sector or from a partnership with the local, provincial or territorial governments.

There are a number of criteria and, frankly, they change all the time, based on previous experiences.

I'm trying to say “it seems like”....

Almost every week, requests are put on my desk indicating where the changes are. Someone might tell me that there is one group that found our points system not quite appropriate and that we should change it. We're changing things all the time.

Is there something to add?

[Daniel Jean]

I would also like to say that, for our existing programs, there is always the possibility of adjusting, with the minister's support, the criteria that reflect particular perspectives. We did that for 1812, and we can do it for 2017.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Talking about perspectives, I would like to draw your attention to something that I think is very relevant. My colleague, Tyrone, was just speaking about specific waves of immigration. I think that it might be desirable, beyond the celebration of the 150th anniversary, to celebrate the specific major steps and dates for Manitoba and Saskatchewan.

Are you planning something like this?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Yes, as you know, we have just created the new Canadian Museum of Immigration at Pier 21 in Halifax. There is something I said to the new president and to the members of the museum's board of directors.

As you know, Pier 21 was part of the heritage long before it became a national museum a year ago. We want it to be a truly national museum. It's not just about immigrants who came from Europe. That wouldn't be enough in my opinion. We want the programming to truly be at the forefront of what we are seeing on the ground, in our major cities and in our regions. We want it to reflect the great diversity that exists in our communities of immigrants and new Canadians. We want them to be involved in this type of programming where they live and the programming to focus on the future and the next steps in immigration. We also want the programming to be available across the country and that the institution of the Canadian Museum of Immigration not only have a physical presence in Halifax, but that new media be used and that it be available in other museums in regions throughout the country.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Nantel.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I want to add that we will be appointing a new president very soon. There is a board. It's perhaps a very specific matter.

I suggest that this committee look at inviting

…the new president of the Canadian Museum of Immigration at Pier 21 and the president of the Canadian Museum of Human Rights in Winnipeg. You can ask them to come and appear as witnesses to talk about their vision for their institutions and how they can truly be pan-Canadian institutions. These are the first and only two national museums in Canada that are outside the national capital. They must understand the spirit of having a national museum that is not located in the national capital and that their approach should be pan-Canadian and not just local.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Nantel and Mr. Minister.

Mr. Gill.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for taking the time out this morning to be with us. It's an honour to have you here. I want to thank you for the wonderful work you've been doing.

In the committee on Tuesday we looked at the Bay of Fundy as part of the seven wonders of the modern world competition. We learned what a success it has been in introducing youth to the concept of voting and the democratic process in general. For many, this was the first time they were able to cast a vote on something that truly mattered.

Can you discuss the importance of encouraging the involvement of youth in part of these important celebrations?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Does Rodney Weston want to answer that question?

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Yes, moments like this, where we actually can get Canadians.... By the way, a member of Parliament from Brampton asking about the Bay of Fundy is a good thing. People talking about Canadian history and culture beyond their regions, and understanding and promoting that is a good thing, because it only unites the country.

I used to say this all the time...I don't know if it's true anymore, but it used to be true about 10 or 15 years ago when I gave the speech. It used to be true in Quebec that the younger the population, the higher the proportion of people who identified with the Bloc Québécois or the separatist movement. I always thought to myself that it was such a shame, because if anybody actually had the opportunity to visit across the country, if they looked out over the Chilcotin plateau at dawn or dusk, if they got to go to Gander, if they saw Cape Spear, if they visited downtown Toronto, and if they ate in a restaurant in Edmonton, they would understand the diversity of this country and they would say: “What are we talking about? Why in the world would anybody consider leaving the greatest country in the world?”

People don't have the resources to visit and travel this country as we members of Parliament do. It's a great privilege, by the way, as a member of Parliament, to get to understand and visit this country the way we do. So few Canadians have that benefit. Therefore, in turn, it comes to us as a responsibility to use institutions and the tools at our disposal as a government to make sure Canadians understand these things.

People should know about the Bay of Fundy and the tides, what they mean and have meant, and how gorgeous it is there, and they should be able to point it out on a map and talk about it. I think that's a good thing. I think this is something I'm going to be talking about more, certainly as we go to 2017, but also at the federal, provincial, and territorial ministers of culture meetings coming up, and, going forward, to encourage them to adopt a more robust plan with regard to teaching history. It has to happen for the good of the country.

Not to be a political analyst, there's one thing that does concern me a little. People look at the House of Commons and say, “Oh well, the Bloc Québécois is down to four seats in the House, so I guess we don't have to worry about that.” Well no, these debates are cyclical. I think Canadians become alienated from one another when we become lazy about being proud of being Canadians, being proud of our institutions and regions, and talking about them to each other.

I don't think the political expression of May 2 can be taken as an expression of full success in defeating anybody's appetite for more regional politics or regional divisions. I think we should take this as a window of opportunity over the coming four years to take things like 2017 and breathe a new energy into patriotism across the country, to really seize the moment. This is how I would see it.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Thank you.

You also mentioned that the Queen's diamond jubilee is coming up next year. What kind of celebrations do we have planned and what can people do to get involved?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

All members of Parliament will be involved in this as well. Hold on a second. I have to ask....

Okay. We are giving out diamond jubilee medals. I had to ask because I couldn't remember if we had already announced that or not--

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

We have. Okay. There we are.

Many of you will remember that in the second year of Jean Chrétien's last term it was the golden jubilee of Her Majesty, her 50th anniversary as the Queen of Canada. Sheila Copps, then the heritage minister, and Jean Chrétien had a golden jubilee medal program. It was largely a success. We are going to revisit that, but we're actually, I think, improving on it.

As is always the case, there were just unforeseen challenges and problems with the golden jubilee program, which was overwhelmingly a success, but we've tweaked, upgraded, and fixed this. I think it'll be embraced by all members of Parliament going forward. The diamond jubilee is a very big part of our calendar in the next year in terms of identifying institutions that are important to Canada's past, present, and future. Members of Parliament will be involved in this. Those of you here who were members of Parliament in 2002, although I don't think there are many, actually--I think I'm the only one--will note that it was a great program.

As for what it is, basically, each of us as a member of Parliament is allocated a number of medals to give to Canadians of accomplishment in our districts. It will be a way for members of Parliament to draw up Canadians of great achievement who live in their districts and to highlight them and their accomplishments for your community and, by extension, for all Canadians.

The diamond jubilee program is quite broad in its scope. I'll have even more to say on it very soon. It will involve all members of Parliament of all parties in a very non-partisan way, as a way of celebrating the diamond jubilee and also making sure that Canadians have an opportunity to know other Canadians who have achieved great things for their community.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Gill.

Ms. Boutin-Sweet, you will get the last question.

Minister, you said you would stay an extra five minutes, so that gives us time for one last question.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Yes. It's just because I have House duty. That's why I have to leave.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you for staying. I appreciate it.

I also feel that the lack of communication and the lack of knowledge of people throughout the country causes problems. I would like to go back to a few things you said about that.

You spoke about national dialogue, of symbols and of a responsible government. I'll go back to what my colleague said about the Pointe-à-Callière project. I think you visited the museum this summer. They found the remains of the first Parliament of United Canada from 1844, when the responsible government was created.

I would like to hear what you have to say about that. In my opinion, it would be a very important permanent legacy for Canadian unity. And it's in Montreal. We could also talk about the French fact and the English fact, which would be unifying.

I would like to hear your comments about that please.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I'm not aware of a proposal for such an event. But, certainly, the start of the responsible government is an event that we should be proud of, as Canadians, as Quebeckers, as Montrealers. It is very important for the region to highlight that fact. If there is a proposal, I'm certain it will be supported by the city and the province. If there is a sensible proposal that could apply to our programming, we'll look at it.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Could we talk about possible permanent infrastructures?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

We will see. I can't answer you right now. But this could be part of their proposal. We are open to this type of discussion and we want to work with them. When they have decided on programming and what they would like to see as a legacy, we will be able to talk to them about what they need.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

I think this is one of Montreal's three priorities for 2017.

My second question is about first nations. How do we plan to involve the first nations in these celebrations? Have any specific projects already been thought out?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

We will have round tables around the country and discussions in the various regions. As I already said, my perspective has its limits. I'm from the west coast. It would be arrogant for me or any government or committee to say that people have to accept our vision, that we have considered what they have said and to present them with our programming. We are going to hold round tables and make visits.

We will consult aboriginals on how they would like to celebrate the 150th anniversary. Their proposals will certainly be a large part of the celebrations. As Mr. Brown said, the 2010 Olympic Games were also a very special event. There were major victories in 2010 in sports, culture and official languages. The involvement of aboriginals was unparalleled in such a large event. It was higher than in 1988 or 1976. In my opinion, it was a benchmark for this type of event. We will certainly copy that approach to involve aboriginals in 2017.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

I fully agree with you. I was very proud of that part. But there is a small concern. There wasn't enough French during the opening ceremonies of the Olympic Games. I hope that will be kept in mind for the 2017 celebrations.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

But as for the Olympic Games themselves, the Grand Témoin de la Francophonie said that it was hard to do better when it came to the level of bilingualism at that event. It was a big success. It's true that the opening ceremonies were one thing, but it was a great success overall. I think that's important.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Minister, for being here today. It was very informative

Some of your officials are going to be staying behind for some more questions,but thank you once again. We look forward to having you here again.

We'll suspend for a few minutes until the officials come to the table.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

We'll get started here, folks.

We're pleased to have with us Mr. Daniel Jean, deputy minister, Department of Canadian Heritage, Nicole Bourget, assistant deputy minister of sport, major events and regions, and Denis Racine, executive director, major events and celebrations.

It's nice to have all of you here to join us.

There is no opening statement, I believe, so we will continue with our questions on Canada's 150th anniversary.

MP Tilly O'Neill Gordon has the next question.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I want to thank you all for being here and say how much I enjoyed the minister's talk and explanation of what is going on with the celebrations. Being a former primary school teacher, I was interested in his comments about history in the classroom and the need for that everywhere. In New Brunswick it is part of the curriculum.

I also want to say that it's interesting to have these programs in the later years, but as a primary school teacher, I know this information is absorbed even by kids in grade three. If it's a fun thing, as it is on Canada Day or any celebration, they get right into it and they enjoy it. It's something that has an impact on them at that age, something they will carry with them that will become part of their lives. They will come to realize how much Canada really means to us all.

Not only do they celebrate things, but children at that age are very quick--as we all know if we have children at home--to get the people out, to get their parents or grandparents, or aunts and uncles, to take part in these things. That will also spread through the community and make our communities even more aware. Like the minister said about the celebrations and the children with their mitts and everything, they would have been out there regardless; I know that in my riding it was pouring rain, but those little ones were out there with their flags and their mitts.

Is your department planning anything that will be beneficial to the teachers in the classrooms for students of that age?

[Daniel Jean]

My colleagues are the ones who do all the major events in Canada. Whether it's the royal tour last summer or the state funeral recently, they do all of these major events, and they are extremely good at it. As somebody who is fairly new to Heritage, I must pay tribute to the work they do.

For these commemorations, we often work with our partners in the portfolio, whether it's the National Film Board, the CBC, or others. While respecting their independence, we work on trying to create content that will be helpful to various segments of the population, particularly youth. That's one of the reasons we are moving into new media. Take the National Film Board. Most of us grew up in school watching NFB documentaries and cartoons.

Interestingly, as for what is cool about the NFB today for youth nowadays, they're cool on mobile applications, where they're very good in documentaries and cartoons. There are ways to work with our programs and with our partners to try to create content that inspires youth.

Denis and Nicole, would you like to give more examples?

[Nicole Bourget, Assistant Deputy Minister, Sport, Major Events and Regions, Department of Canadian Heritage]

Sure. To build on what Daniel said on the programming, whenever we do major commemorations, there is the development of a website, and we do use all the social media used by youth, from young people to those who are more mature and in high school. A good example of a success was during the 400th anniversary of Quebec. We had an interactive website and it had games on it. Young students at the primary level could go into the site and learn and discover and walk through the historical parts. We firmly believe that it's important to offer these learning and educational materials to children and to youth across the country.

So we will reach out. There will be programming. There will be special initiatives. We work often with the Historica-Dominion Institute because they specialize in history. We benefit from the wisdom of an advisory board of historians to help us with the accuracy of information. There will be events across the country, we're assuming, where people will celebrate, and it won't be just with red mittens. I'm sure we'll find something else, as we did with the torch relay, but it is the kind of objective that we try to reach.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you.

Ms. Freeman.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Ms. Bourget, Mr. Jean, Mr. Racine, thank you for being here today.

Obviously I'm very excited about this, but I also have a few concerns. I see a lot of similarities between the preparations for the 150th celebration and the 2010 Olympics. In both cases, there would obviously be a huge amount of patriotic support and funding from various levels of government.

While this is great, of course, we found that in Vancouver this funding was often diverted from other sources, such as health care, education, and especially the arts. In the buildup to the 2010 games, the BC Arts Council saw its budget slashed by 82%. The 150th anniversary offers us an opportunity to celebrate Canadian arts and culture in a way that we haven't seen since the centennial celebrations, and I believe it's very important to capitalize on this opportunity to celebrate and to promote Canadian artists and musicians.

Can you talk about what safeguards are in place to ensure that funding for the anniversary celebration is not diverted from arts programs, as it was during the Olympics?

[Daniel Jean]

To start with, we are in a difficult fiscal environment. We have to make sure that money is efficient and effective in everything we do. The money that is in our programs for arts and culture is being spent on arts and culture. It was the case for the Olympics and it will be the case in the context of 2017.

We're very good at taking the dollars we have for arts and culture and the commemoration of events like these historical events and then leveraging money from partners who have existing programs. Take the $28 million that the minister referred to for the War of 1812: we're leveraging $76 million from partners who will also invest in the commemoration of the War of 1812.

This is all money from partners who have programs for commemorative events, whether it's the Mint doing a special coin for 1812--and they'll certainly do something for 2017--or whether it's Canada Post doing a stamp or other partners that are doing something from that angle.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Okay.

I'm usually a Status of Women gal--I'm very happy to be sitting here, of course--so I'm going to bring a gendered focus to this. We have a very proud military and democratic history. Obviously 1867 is a very important thing to celebrate, but obviously it was founded by men, and a lot of our early military history is mostly about men. While these do inspire Canadian patriotism, I'm worried that we might equate patriotism with patriarchal history.

The women of this country should be able to look back 150 years as well, and see themselves, and recognize—

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Laura Secord...[Inaudible--Editor]

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

I'll get to that. Obviously in 1812 Laura Secord was a very important woman. She was mentioned in the minister's speaking notes.

We'll obviously be celebrating the rights that women have gained, but I'd like women of today to be able to look back at 1867 and see themselves and their history. Beyond celebrating Laura Secord, what measures are being planned to ensure that Canadian women's heritage is as equally celebrated as it should be?

[Daniel Jean]

I think it's an excellent question.

I think the minister spoke about the importance of making sure that what unites us as Canadians, all coming from different perspectives...and what have been the contributions from various people. Whether it's people who were here before the first settlers, the first settlers, or the wave of immigrants who've come here, they're people of all genders and from all backgrounds. For example, in 2016, “On the Road to Confederation” will mark the 100th anniversary of access to the vote for women. That's a good event that we certainly would like to underline.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Okay.

How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

You have 30 seconds.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

For both the Q and the A.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Well, then, it looks like I'm out of time.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Ms. Freeman.

Folks, we're going to have a vote. The bells will be ringing at 10:38 a.m. I would propose that we ask another question. We did have some committee business that we wanted to get done. I'll leave it to the will of the committee, but when the bell rings we'll have to leave here and not return, and we do have some things in committee business that are important for our future meetings.

Is it okay, then, if we ask one more question and then go to committee business? What's the will of the committee?

[An hon. member]

[Inaudible--Editor]

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

I would like to have a two-minute round.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

So we'll have a five-minute question from Mr. Weston and a two-minute question from Mr. Nantel. Then we'll go to committee business.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Well, I--

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

You're not up yet, Mr. Simms.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

But I thought we were starting a new round.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

No. We've kept going with the five-minute rounds.

Five, two, and one: how does that sound? Or we could debate it for two minutes.... Or two? Five, two, and two?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Why don't we go two, two, and two, and then get into new business? Does that work?

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Okay. Thank you.

[An hon. member]

That's a good deal.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Mr. Weston.

[Rodney Weston, Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Well, I don't know if it's a good deal or not....

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Rodney Weston, Conservative, Saint John, NB]

I'll be quick.

I appreciate the minister's comments around the Bay of Fundy. Obviously we're doing everything we can to bring attention to what's happening right now with VoteMyFundy. With regard to the Bay of Fundy, I know that the committee heard from representatives here on Tuesday. With the Bay of Fundy and the seven wonders of nature, there has been a lot of collaboration among different levels of government and different private sector and community sector groups.

I guess what I'm wondering about with regard to the 150th celebration is what sorts of consultations you are doing with the provinces, the municipalities, and the community sector. Can you outline that briefly for us?

[Daniel Jean]

With the provinces, an initial discussion took place at the federal-provincial-territorial meeting of ministers of culture last year. They brought in a keynote speaker, Mr. Thorsell, former editor-in-chief of The Globe and Mail, who was actually very much involved in 1967 when he was young. We certainly plan to continue to engage with provinces and territories in what they'd like to see in terms of commemorating 2017.

As the minister said earlier, there will certainly be a process of engagement with our various stakeholders and our various partners to see what thematics and what things people would like to see in the context of commemoration of the 150th anniversary of Canada.

[Rodney Weston, Conservative, Saint John, NB]

When you talked to the provinces, was there any discussion around a commitment of funds? Looking at the projects that we're talking about here, we can see that there could be dollars expended. Was there a recognition that there could be a contribution required from the provinces as well?

[Daniel Jean]

Yes. Our experience in working with provinces on many of these commemorations is that they're always prepared to bring their funds to the table as well. Working together, we're able to achieve more.

As I said earlier in regard to the example of the War of 1812, there was $28 million, with $76 million leveraged altogether. You have some of these provinces, of course, who have locations for some of these milestones, whether it's Charlottetown or Quebec for the conferences, and there are others.

So yes, there will be discussions with provinces on how we can make sure that we put our resources together and achieve more.

[Rodney Weston, Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Weston.

Mr. Nantel.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

My colleagues spoke about the 375th anniversary of Montreal and I would like to know whether cooperation could be considered. I am thinking of an advertisement highlighting the 375th anniversary of Montreal that would read, at the bottom of the page, "with the cooperation of Canada - 150 years." Could we consider this type of cooperation and even consider that some of the funds for the 150th anniversary would be allocated to the 375th anniversary and that it would be integrated into the concept?

[Daniel Jean]

As the minister explained, our programs enable us to commemorate important anniversaries, including those of cities. We are certainly going to consult representatives of the City of Montreal to look at what can be done for the 375th anniversary. It is important that we be able to focus on all the major anniversaries leading up to 2017 to create momentum around the 150th anniversary. We are going to hold talks with the City of Montreal, as we are going to do with other cities across the country. But we are working within a difficult fiscal framework. So we are going to try as much as possible to stay within our current budget.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

You've said that twice already, and I'm a little concerned. Can we anticipate a transfer of funds? This is what you seem to be telling us.

[Daniel Jean]

No, not at all. I simply want to point out that we have $1 billion for general programming. This includes our programs on official languages, on arts and culture, and so on. When there are anniversaries, through this programming and based on the criteria and existing programs, we can always inject funds into the channels for important commemorations. It could be the 150th anniversary or important events that will take place leading up to it.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

In other words, your department doesn't have an additional envelope for these celebrations.

[Daniel Jean]

It is too early to discuss a possible additional envelope for 2017.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Nantel.

Mr. Simms, for two minutes.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Weston. I feel like I'm chewing into your time, but--

[Rodney Weston, Conservative, Saint John, NB]

You are.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Thank you, sir. I appreciate it.

Just very quickly, when it comes to celebrations of this magnitude on the east coast, for us, a lot of these programs are undertaken by Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency. We have now five regional development agencies across the country. Have you reached out to them in regard to being partners in some of these events? Have you had discussions with them?

[Daniel Jean]

Absolutely. When we do these kinds of programs, we talk to all our regional development agencies. We talk to all the other federal partners, whether it's Parks Canada.... We talk to all the crown corporations that very often are involved in these things, like the Mint, Canada Post....

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Yes, I got that from the minister, but I was wondering about this one, because I know that in our neck of the woods, like I say, ACOA plays a huge part in this by attracting tourists from outside in; that seems to be their theme. I hope that continues because I think they do a great job in laying out some of these programs. I find that they're a good partner because they tend to fold into the program that you have, like the 100 year celebrations for communities.

[Daniel Jean]

There is a very good partnership between the regional development agencies, because they appreciate that the content we bring on the cultural side is a major attraction in terms of tourism.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

That's excellent.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Simms.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here. We'll dismiss all of you now and move in camera to discuss committee business, but we look forward to seeing and hearing from you again in the future.

Thank you.

[Proceedings continue in camera]