Environment Committee on March 4th, 2014

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Is there a tribunal that hears the application?

[Jim Richardson]

There is a regional body that coordinates the process, but the hearing is in the local jurisdiction.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

So, in this instance we're talking about a transfer out to Wisconsin. So is Wisconsin the jurisdiction?

[Jim Richardson]

Yes. If it's Wisconsin that the water taking occurs in. I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with the particular application you're speaking to. Let me turn it around and say that if Ontario were to do this, when we went out for public consultation, it would give the Great Lakes states the opportunity to comment in our public consultation process. As well as that specific, it also lays out a number of undertakings that deal with conservation practices, consistency of approval standards, return of water quality, and water quantity to the extent practical.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Thank you, Mr. McKay.

We move now to Madame Freeman for five minutes.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for the witnesses from the Government of Ontario.

Do you think we should do a study on the quality and level of water in the Great Lakes?

[Dr. Maurice Bitran]

On the water quality?

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

When a study is done on water quality, should the water level also be studied?

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Sorry, Madame Freeman.

The committee agreed to the criteria that I pointed you to at the outset of our meeting today, and I would encourage us to continue. I don't think it's up to the witnesses to define the scope of this committee study. The committee has agreed to the scope.

At this point, I'm asking you to confine your questions to water quality. That's what our witnesses came prepared to discuss today. They're not prepared to discuss quantity, and I would ask you not to put them into that situation. Please proceed.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Actually, I was referring to the water level, not the quantity. If we want to be technical, we will use the terms I have already used.

Honestly, I was simply asking…

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Madame Freeman, if you choose to go down this route, I will give your time to the next questioner.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

I simply wanted to ask the witnesses…

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Quantity and levels are synonymous as far as the study of this.... We're going to work on water quality.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Okay.

Ontario has implemented projects to deal with the destruction of wetlands. So we can talk about wetlands and coasts and the riparian habitat. What action are you taking in that respect?

[Dr. Maurice Bitran]

I mentioned some work on wetlands during my presentation.

As was indicated before, the wetlands are very important because they're a habitat for wildlife and fish. Therefore, we're mapping the significant wetlands in the province. This mapping leads to understanding them, cataloguing them, and undertaking work to improve them.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

My question had to do with the details of what is currently being done.

[Brian Nixon]

Mr. Chair, Mr. Bitran's comments reference a provincial policy statement. That policy statement governs control of land use in the province and includes provisions to protect significant wetlands.

Our sister ministry, the Ministry of Natural Resources, has a wetland classification system that is reflected in the policy statement. In turn, there are prohibitions on development within wetlands that fall at the higher levels of that classification. The most significant wetlands in Ontario, particularly those that have an impact on things like water quality and the quality of the Great Lakes, are protected under that policy. Municipalities and others who are undertaking decisions around land use, up to and including property owners, are subject to those policies.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

I'm going to switch to English because I'm not entirely sure.... Is the question I'm asking not relevant?

The question I'm asking is, what actions are being taken to protect wetlands by the Government of Ontario?

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Mr. Richardson.

[Jim Richardson]

My ministry administers the Drainage Act. In the last year we've worked with the conservation authorities of Ontario, the drainage superintendents in Ontario, who are usually municipal employees in charge of drainage in their rural municipalities, and the Ministry of Natural Resources to put forward protocols to better manage the contentious issues between drainage, fisheries protection, and wetlands protection, in a fashion that respects the needs of all participants and gives some predictability to the process.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Thank you very much, Madame Freeman.

We'll move now to Mr. Sopuck for five minutes.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

I found these presentations most interesting and informative. I want to compliment all of you on them.

Mr. Wilcox and Mr. Richardson, I was especially pleased at your strong focus on agriculture. I represent a western Manitoba constituency with a lot of farmland. The issues you described are near and dear to my heart.

Mr. Wilcox, you used the phrase “incentive based, voluntary, and targeted” incentive programs, and I—

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Excuse me, could we just have attention, please, we're having one of our witnesses being asked a question.

Mr. Sopuck.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

I very much approve of those words because having dealt with a lot of farmers myself in a previous life, and now, I think that's a wise way to go.

You said that additional funding would be required for incentives to really make that style of programming work. That tells me that in your mind the issue is actually one of scale. It's not that we don't have the right tools; it's an issue of scale. Is that correct?

[Ian Wilcox]

That's absolutely correct. We're trying to put a house fire out with a garden hose.