Environment Committee on June 12th, 2014

[Michael Goeres]

On the recycling aspect, you heard from Ms. Leung from Emterra Group about a good number of the problems and about some of the potential opportunities.

There aren't enough recyclables. They aren't well enough identified. There are too many programs in large metropolitan areas in which there are differentiations among what is recyclable and what isn't recyclable, and that's a real problem that municipalities have to address.

Also, at the end of the day, there's simply consumer behaviour.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Thank you very much.

We'll move to Madam Liu.

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you for your presentations. They're all really informative. I think we got a really good, interesting view of the very micro levels and challenges related to waste management, as well as some of the macro challenges.

My first question is for Mr. Louie of FCM. I wanted to refer to a motion that my colleague Ruth Ellen Brosseau tabled in the House a few weeks ago. She tabled a motion to make reducing food waste a top priority. You might already be familiar with the motion. I believe it got the support of FCM. Essentially it encourages the federal government to take action on reducing food waste, among other measures, such as facilitating the donation of safe and unsold food from the private sector to community organizations and food banks. I think it's a really great measure, and it shows that the government needs to take some leadership on this issue. What else do you think the federal government should be doing to reduce food waste?

[Raymond Louie]

Thank you for the question.

Certainly, we have some experience here in British Columbia. I know that Ontario also has legislation, in fact, that allows for that to happen by eliminating the liability issues with regard to some of the old food that is produced and is perhaps very much still edible but ends up in the dump because it's not able to be given to other organizations, needy organizations.

One way for that to happen is for the federal government to revise tax laws to encourage food donations, so there is some value to this food and it's not just the goodwill of these organizations that are giving it to needy organizations, but it is rather like any other donation for which there's an assessed value, a deemed value.

There should perhaps be some direction in terms of food labelling. There's a misnomer, certainly among the consumer population, that when they see a date stamped on products, it is a spoil date, when in fact that's not the case. The date on labelling is a best-before date, which guarantees a certain standard of food quality for the consumer, but it does not necessarily mean that it is no longer consumable or that it should not be consumed after that date. I think baby formula is the only food product that actually has an expiry date, so this should change.

If we can do both an education program.... These are just a couple of examples. It's part of the efforts of this National Zero Waste Council to highlight these things for organizations and provinces and governments as well.

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

There's a lot of education to be done. I know in my community of Rivière-des-Mille-Îles there are groups and citizens who are trying to educate consumers about food waste and about how to eliminate or reduce their food waste. These are certainly really very valuable initiatives.

I just want to move to something you mentioned in your presentation concerning the treatment of waste water. We know that the federal government proposed a new pan-Canadian strategy on the management of waste water. This is particularly controversial among municipalities because, as you know, there were new rules put into place, that would essentially obligate municipalities to upgrade their infrastructure without actually having any funding attached to these new roles. I heard from many municipalities and communities in my region that were upset about this measure. Could you maybe give the committee a general policy recommendation on what part the federal government should play in funding waste treatment plants and wastewater treatment plants?

[Raymond Louie]

Thank you for the question. I need to recognize, first of all, that there was an announcement and that a program has been created, the building Canada plan, which embeds significant new infrastructure monies through the Building Canada fund, which will help to address some of these issues, including wastewater treatment.

The FCM previously expressed to the federal government that, with regard to new regulations, we would have preferred the opportunity to have the discussion and influence the end result of that policy and that if new regulations were to be brought down requiring municipal governments to undertake these efforts, then attached funding should be made available and put in place as well. That did not happen as part of the Building Canada plan or Building Canada fund specifically, but we are able to access that funding.

At this point in time it is still uncertain when that money will become fully available to us. Negotiations between the federal government and the provinces are continuing, and the funding framework is still outstanding. Specifically here in Metro Vancouver, we are anxiously waiting, as we have a very large wastewater facility that needs upgrades to meet the 2020 deadline as set out by the federal government. This is an ongoing issue, which is why it's important for us as local government to have initiatives like this—and we're talking about solid waste—which in turn will save us all money, which we can redirect to things like wastewater treatment itself.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Thank you.

Mr. Carrie, go ahead for five minutes, please.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses.

First, I'd like to say hello to Mr. Moore from Minister Shea. She said she's had some great opportunities to work with you in the past.

I really enjoyed your presentation. The topic of our study really addresses technological innovation and best practices, and I liked what you had to say. I do have a question though about the numbers there. You said you charge $205 per person per year. Do you know how that compares to other municipalities for comparable service?

[Gerry Moore]

I do. Prior to the creation of Island Waste Management, the municipalities would look after that service, and it would be included in their municipal tax bill. There really wasn't any clear tracking of the waste component of their taxes. So it's very difficult to compare. But the $205 isn't per person, it is per household. I want to make that clear. It's per household, and for that $205 we provide each resident with collection carts. In P.E.I. they happen to be green and black, one for compost, and one for waste. We basically maintain those carts forever and a day.

So it's $205 per household. As for how that compares, the only thing I can say is that prior to waste watch, it wouldn't be uncommon for someone in a rural area of P.E.I. to have their waste collected by an individual—probably not really in the waste management business per se in a big way—and to pay $10 a week or $520 a year. Our rate is $205, which we are able to do through economies of scale and also because the recycler or the collection recycler takes back the market value of those recyclables that are collected from households. So in an indirect way, the consumer is benefiting from having a lower rate because the contractor is taking the recyclables out and using those to offset the costs of the collection for the homeowner.

Is that clear?

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

That's the type of innovative thinking I'm really interested in.

I have a couple more questions for you. You mentioned that you have energy from waste. I assume there are some profits with that. I'm curious as to how profitable that is as a business. Do you capture energy from the composting plant, and is that something people can potentially resell?

I have one last question. I was really impressed to hear you say you're doing it across the whole island, and I was wondering if you could let us know a little bit about rural P.E.I. and some of the growing pains and about how you get people to buy into this system the you have going there. Can you do all that within two minutes?

[Gerry Moore]

Yes, hopefully I can get that that done.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Gerry Moore]

First of all, we have an energy-from-waste facility. It's a privately owned company that we contract with. We pay them for disposing of the waste. Because we have a source-separation program, most of the waste they receive is solid petroleum: plastics that for the most part are non-recyclable. They take that waste and make heat energy. They have a grid within the city of Charlottetown that heats federal and provincial buildings and the university, the hospital, and so on. We pay them a tip rate to take that waste, as opposed to putting it in our landfill, although we can't include it in diversion, according to.... If we were able to include that, our diversion rate would certainly be a lot higher.

On your second question, on the compost, we currently do not generate any energy from the compost. The facility was installed in 2003, so it's been going for 10 or 12 years. It's an aerobic process, not anaerobic, so we do not pull any gas from it at this time. Although as time goes on, I am interested.... I heard about the Building Canada fund and am glad to see a component in there for waste management. Down the road, if it's feasible for Prince Edward Island, we may have access to a similar types of funds for that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Thank you very much.

You're right on the button, Mr. Carrie.

We move now to Mr. Choquette for five minutes.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to pick up on the challenges associated with recycling.

Yesterday, Beauceville-based Recyc RPM announced that it was applying for protection under the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act. That ties in to the circular economy. What this Quebec-based company does is useful because it takes bales of large plastic items from recycling facilities and converts them into pellets that are eventually used to manufacture other objects.

One of the problems the company encountered was the price of the materials it used. And processing those materials in accordance with the cradle to cradle principle also posed challenges. Over the past few weeks, witnesses have told the committee that recycling companies interested in alternatives to waste burial have problems turning those solutions into profitable ventures because carbon isn't tied to a price.

Does the CCME, FCM or anyone else believe that the federal government should adopt a clear policy on the cost of carbon to help those in the recycling industry, among others?

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

You're directing that to...?

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Goeres and Mr. Louie could answer first, followed by any other witnesses who would like to comment.

[Michael Goeres]

Thank you.

The CCME does not have a position on a carbon tax. I believe three of our member provincial governments have carbon taxes: Quebec, Alberta, and British Columbia.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Mr. Louie.

[Raymond Louie]

I would have to mirror that answer. I'm not aware.... I'd have to look back in our resolutions for the federation. I'm not prepared to answer that as a position, but certainly I will find the answer and send you directly the position of the FCM.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Are you going to pursue the line of questioning further with others?

Mr. Moore?

[Gerry Moore]

The only thing I would say to that is that I wouldn't necessarily get involved with a carbon tax myself, but there are some recyclables that are very profitable, most notably aluminum. There's the re-smelting of aluminum and metal.

There are others where the market is not so lucrative currently. That can change. But for those products, some incentive via a tax credit or to encourage people.... Also, maybe there is a product that can be made from these materials if someone were given the business opportunity to do so and perhaps get credits for doing that. That's the way I would suggest doing it in order to build markets for these recycled materials.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Very good.

I am going to come back to you, Mr. Goeres.

Earlier, you said that there wasn't enough data and that we should focus on the largest waste producers. Should the federal government have a hand in collecting the data you need? What can we do to focus on the largest waste producers? Do you have any recommendations for us in that connection?

[Michael Goeres]

I can only respond to that based on what the waste experts from the province, our waste management task group, report to me. It falls into a number of different areas, but there is dissatisfaction amongst the technical folks across the country with the range of Statistics Canada data and the granularity of Statistics Canada data.

There are a variety of reasons for that. There are concerns about the lengthy delays between receiving data and getting data. Sometimes two, three, four years intervene between the collection of data to the time it's available, which renders it somewhat problematic. There are no consistent definitions across the country on what constitutes recycling, what constitutes disposal, what constitutes a certain category of waste, what constitutes a particular category within a waste stream. Those are all areas that governments collectively are looking at and trying to address.

That gives you an example of some of the areas where the data itself is the problem.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Thank you very much.

We'll move now to Mr. Toet, five minutes.