Environment Committee on Nov. 17th, 2014

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

Thank you to Mr. Norwegian and Ms. Blondin-Andrew for being with us by teleconference today. I'm delighted to be able to ask you a few questions about the Nááts’ihch’oh park reserve.

In particular, Ms. Blondin-Andrew, I want to thank you for speaking with such great affection about growing up in the park, and about its culture and heritage, and about it being a way to teach our youth how to respect the land and care for it and to make conservation a priority with youth.

One of my colleagues on the committee has just written a book called A Life Outdoors. I'm shamelessly plugging his book for him, because he may be too shy to do so. Okay, he's not shy. It's subtitled, Essays on Hunting, Gathering and Country Living in the 21st Century . I suspect that you could probably write your own book of essays on hunting, gathering, and living in the north in the 21st century.

Here is your book, Bob. I'm going to buy a few copies, I just want to make that clear. It just went on sale today.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

I can hear you laughing.

Here on this committee we're all very excited about this park—I think I can speak for everyone—as well as about the Rouge national park in my neighbourhood in the greater Toronto area.

I also want to thank you for your service of, I believe, 18 years as a member of Parliament and for letting us all know that there is life after Parliament.

My question is a very general one. What are the benefits of the Nááts’ihch’oh national park reserve for first nations?

[Ethel Blondin-Andrew]

I think it's an opportunity to show that two worlds don't have to collide, that they can co-exist and you can co-manage aspirations in the 21st century. For the jobs that are going to be related to the park, the hiring and all the demonstrations I've seen through the advertisements, they will go through the north and advertise in the north. I've seen jobs for parks in Inuvik and also on Great Bear Lake, as well as in our area. Then when they build the facilities, I think they're going to be looking at working with local people, local contractors. They will go that route.

I've been to Auyuittuq in Nunavut where they have a really nice visitors centre. It really gives focus to what's around the environment. We have what's called the place of creation in Bear Rock, right beside Tulita. All those significant sites have a wonderful oral history, and this is shared with the children. I've seen children work on some of this stuff at the schools. I think it's a foundation for learning and for gifting other people with that knowledge.

I also think it's an opportunity for our people to not only co-manage, but to manage in real terms those facilities and those opportunities, by going out into those areas. I see an ever-prominent move for the outdoors.

I don't know who the author is of that book you mentioned.

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

I didn't mention his name. His name is Robert Sopuck. He's the member of Parliament for Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette.

[Ethel Blondin-Andrew]

Awesome. I'm going to have a look for that.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Ethel Blondin-Andrew]

It works. Social media works.

I think it's a great opportunity, just the knowledge and the beauty and the aesthetics, and the issue of conservation. Then on the other side, there's development. I think this is what the north is about. It's not just one thing; it's many things. Sometimes when you have a challenge, it turns into an opportunity. I think people will share in that and be very happy to work along. I know the process when we started. We had the elders involved. It was a whole community thing. The rooms were full of elders at these meetings, to start working on the park. Rocky was there. I was there. Rick Hardy was there. There were all kinds of elders, all the people from the community of Tulita and the local environment who were all working on this project together. How could they reject it? They're the ones who helped build it.

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

That does sound like a very positive process.

If I could encapsulate a bit what you're saying, I believe you would say that the national park does achieve that balance between conservation, environmental protection, and responsible resource development.

[Ethel Blondin-Andrew]

I would say that's a work in progress. There's the opportunity to do that, but Mr. Norwegian was very profound when he said there are people who want the opportunities, but there are also people who appreciate that they want to be able to carry on their traditional pursuits as well. It's a respectful and very guarded process.

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

Thank you so much for your time today. We really appreciate it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

I think that's the first time we've considered the environment committee as a social media construct.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Mr. McKay has seven minutes.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Twitterverse is lighting up as we speak.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Ethel, it's John McKay here. Nice to hear you're having a wonderful, productive life post-politics. I'm glad to see that you're working very hard on this park.

I'll direct this question to both you and Mr. Norwegian. It's clear to me after your conversation that this was not quite what you'd hoped for, and that it was something less than a full southern part of the Nahanni watershed. But you made a decision that this was as good as it was going to get for a while. So the question really is, what did you leave on the table? What is it you didn't get that you would have liked to get? What are the implications for the Sahtu Dene and Metis Comprehensive Land Claim Agreement? What are the implications of not getting all of what you wanted?

[Ethel Blondin-Andrew]

Rocky, do you want to go first?

[Rocky Norwegian]

No. You go ahead, Ethel.

[Ethel Blondin-Andrew]

I'll go back to what we both said. We want more land. We want more land within the park. I think that's basically it.

I did hear Mr. Norwegian, who is now involved in the renewable resources council in Tulita, say that there was a process outside of this one. After we complete the agreement, if we could extend the extension for the expansion of the park, the boundaries of the park, then we could work on this. If we could get an extension to do that, to work on getting more land, that would be a great process. That would be very good.

In terms of the implications for the land claims agreement, I'm not sure there are any, except that with respect to land claims, we always welcome as much as we can gain in our impact and benefit agreement, and as much as we can gain in terms of lands, which is what the claim is all about. It's about trying to maximize benefits for our 3,500 beneficiaries.

It's good to talk to you, John.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

I remember that hamburger joint you took me to in Yellowknife. I've forgotten the name of it, but it is a legend.

[Ethel Blondin-Andrew]

Gold Range.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Yes, that's probably it.

The government is obviously keen to exclude some lands. What is unique about the lands that were excluded from the negotiations?

[Ethel Blondin-Andrew]

On O'Grady Lake, which is Túoch'ee Tuwé, we have two of them. I think the Lened project is on that. It's a very scenic and wonderful spot. It was a heart-wrenching experience for all of us to have to make those compromises, but that's what life in politics is all about, making those decisions.

We didn't make them lightly. We really thought about it. We decided it was better to be there for another fight, for another battle, if we have to. It was better to make a decision rather than to throw our hands up and walk away. You can't do that. You gain nothing.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Ethel, I understand the concept of this is as good as it's going to get for the time being, but what I don't understand is why the government decided that this particular scenic piece, or any other piece, was not to be included in the park reserve.

What is unique? What's special about these many square kilometres that aren't part of the reserve?