Evidence of meeting #33 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was carroll.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Chad Mariage
Adam Carroll  As an Individual
Paul Champ  Lawyer, Champ and Associates

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON

Marci Surkes. Thank you very much.

So Marci Surkes, I would assume, undertook to get a copy of the public safety minister's divorce record, presumably based on the information we have from the NDP.

11:25 a.m.

As an Individual

Adam Carroll

I don't think that's a fair statement at all. I think you are making a very gross generalization, and an assumption that is completely baseless and without fact.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON

Do you agree with the interim Liberal leader that personal lives are outside the bounds of play in politics?

11:25 a.m.

As an Individual

Adam Carroll

I'll tell you what I do agree with. That is, and I'll quote,

I know it’s a difficulty even for members to accept that your personal life is fair game. That’s the world we live in, and I’m not going to try in any way to suggest that somehow aspects of my life are off limits.

Who said that? Minister Toews. He said that at the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs on March 27, 2012.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON

So you don't agree with Bob Rae, then. Okay. That's good. All right. I don't always agree with him either.

It surprises me that you thought it was really extraordinary that the Speaker would use the resources of the Speaker's office to investigate you. It sounded as if you were playing the victim a little there. I'm a little surprised by your tone.

I did have one final question for you, because I assume I'm probably running out of time.

You indicated when it was clear that everything was coming down on you that you sent a note to say that it wasn't the NDP. You were pretty deceptive in how you did that, because you said you were not in Ottawa. You were not whom they thought you were. More than one person had access to this email account. More than one person was posting these things. More than one person had this information.

Were you just being dishonest then, or are you being fully open and honest today?

11:30 a.m.

As an Individual

Adam Carroll

No. I didn't say the specific things you just said. I said, and I'll quote, “I am not in Ottawa. Many people have access to the email address. The Ottawa Citizen in particular is targeting the wrong person”.

At the time I posted this, I was not in Ottawa.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON

But you said that many people had access to the email address.

11:30 a.m.

As an Individual

Adam Carroll

Well, in that respect the password was pretty easy to guess, so I assumed that if anyone wanted to guess what that email password was, they could pretty well go on there and get access to it.

11:30 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

Mr. Del Mastro, your time is up.

Mr. Andrews now has the floor for seven minutes.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Champ, and Mr. Carroll, thank you for coming today.

Before I get to my questions for you, I'd first like to address a couple of the assumptions the Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister addressed in his comments. He's trying to make aspersions that political parties don't do research on their opposition opponents and wouldn't have that information lying around.

I would suggest to the Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister that he should show up about 15 minutes before question period and listen to some of his own members' statements in the House of Commons in the proceeding question period. He would see it's quite evident that parties do research on other members and are not afraid to use that in the House of Commons. So let it not be some deep, dark secret that this doesn't go on in this place.

Mr. Carroll, thank you for coming. As a former political staffer myself, now fortunate enough to sit in the House of Commons, I can appreciate that sometimes you get wrapped up in the moment and in your job because you're trying to do the job to the best of your ability.

One of the things you've said is that you have respect for Parliament. I'm just wondering if you would care to elaborate on your respect for Parliament.

And do you consider that in the ongoing personal attack none of the tweeted information was private?

11:30 a.m.

As an Individual

Adam Carroll

Thank you very much for your question.

You asked two questions. One was to elaborate on my respect for Parliament, and the other was to discuss whether I felt that the information I posted was private information.

With regard to my respect for Parliament, all I can say is that as a kid who grew up in this town, there's nothing bigger than Parliament. Any time you're going out, any time you're getting out of the house, inevitably you'll pass by this place, and it will take your breath away every time. As a kid that was the case and still is to this day.

It's not just that I'm a fan of architecture. It's that I understand what goes on in this place and I have deep, deep respect for it. That is why, after graduating university and being a self-employed businessman for awhile, I had an opportunity to come and work on Parliament Hill. I gave up everything to do it and I've never regretted that. Working on the Hill, to me, is truly an honour, and is probably the best calling I could ever have asked for.

With respect to the tweets being private, I would have to say, no, I'm sorry, the particular information that was published, as I've repeated numerous times, is public information.

You know what? There's a particular policy, and I'll just quote this policy if what you're talking about is specific to the affidavits. The Manitoba court's policy on access to courts' records states:

An open court that permits access to both court proceedings and court records is of fundamental importance to a free and democratic society. This ensures that justice is not only done but seen to be done.

Now, as a trained lawyer, Mr. Toews would have known that every document that was submitted in his court case would be available to the public. There was no publication ban. There were no extraneous circumstances that would have made those documents not available to the public.

In that case, they are as public as anything else that you could access at your fingertips. The very fact that you need to go and pick up a copy does not in any way suggest that those documents are not any more public than accessing an encyclopedia at the library.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL

I would agree that Mr. Toews is a very easy target for criticism, because he says some pretty stupid things. Just recently he made an announcement about shutting down prisons, and claimed that there was no need for the prisons because they had just enacted legislation less than two months ago that had cut down on the crime rate. So Mr. Toews is a very easy target for criticism.

Today we also see the hypocrisy of the Conservatives, who are calling a staff member before committee. In previous parliaments when their staff members were called before committee, they wouldn't have anything to do with it, but now they like to rake other staff members before committee on a witch hunt.

You're just human, Mr. Carroll, and we work in a very intense environment here on Parliament Hill. You stated that it was a very difficult time for you personally. What toll has this taken on you personally?

11:35 a.m.

As an Individual

Adam Carroll

Thank you very much for your question. I'm not one to get into too much detail about myself and my life, but generally, because I did mention in my opening statement that it has been a difficult period of time, there were some circumstances that coincided with the events of this Vikileaks situation that made the period of time very difficult for my family. The greatest medicine in the world, I believe, is time. Time heals. So I appreciate that but—

11:35 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

Unfortunately, your time is up. You will be able to continue with another question, if you wish.

Mrs. Davidson, you have seven minutes.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and congratulations on your move to chair of our committee. I look forward to working with you.

Mr. Carroll, thank you very much for appearing before us this morning. I certainly know that everyone has a lot of questions. We've heard your testimony thus far, and I just want to be very clear that I understood what you told us. I think you told us that the IP address that was tracked was for a House of Commons desktop.

Is that correct?

11:35 a.m.

As an Individual

Adam Carroll

Yes, Mr. Chair.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

You said that most of the documents you referenced were available online, but affidavits were available in your office. You didn't know how they got there, but they were available in the office.

Is that correct?

11:35 a.m.

As an Individual

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

You also said that the information in the office was updated and added to by many people, and the manager in that office was Marci Surkes.

Is that correct?

11:35 a.m.

As an Individual

Adam Carroll

There are several managers in that office. I wouldn't say she was specifically responsible for those documents; those are your words.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

Okay, could you please give me the names of those who were responsible for them, if it wasn't Ms. Surkes?

11:40 a.m.

As an Individual

Adam Carroll

I think what you're trying to do here is—

11:40 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

Mr. Angus is raising a point of order.

11:40 a.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Objection, Mr. Chair. I believe the Conservative Party is using our committee to gather intelligence on the Liberal Party. That is none of the business of this committee, and I think you should refrain from that attempt to turn our committee into a mockery.

Stick to the facts. I don't believe he has to answer any questions about what happens within the Liberal Party office in terms of their staffing. It has nothing to do with this.

11:40 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

On the same point of order. Mr. Del Mastro, you have the floor.