Information & Ethics Committee on Nov. 27th, 2014

[Daniel Therrien]

The reporting centre is led by the CRTC and we were asked by the CRTC to contribute to it. We've offered this money to hire an analyst and we are getting the fruits of the work of that analyst in trends or potential investigations into spamming. So I think we're getting benefit from having that funded.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Okay. Thank you for that. That is reassuring.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

You've got 30 second remaining.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

I'll try to ask this question in 30 seconds.

I'll switch to French.

The report of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, entitled “Privacy and Social Media in the Age of Big Data”, mentions the need to “develop practices that fully comply with the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act, particularly accountability and openness.” It also mentions developing policies, agreements, contracts and so on.

What progress has been made?

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

If you could, be very brief, please.

[Daniel Therrien]

We are at the analysis stage. We haven't yet made any concrete progress with the guidelines.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Why is that?

[Daniel Therrien]

The issue is complex.

Perhaps Ms. Kosseim can provide more detail.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

I'm not sure we have time for a complex answer, I'm afraid. I think we're going to have to—

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Is it because of a lack of financial or human resources?

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

I'm afraid I'll have to call it quits there. There may be an opportunity in other questions to respond to that, if that's okay with the committee.

Next, for the Conservatives, we have the vice-chair of the committee, Pat Davidson.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Commissioner and officials, for being here with us this afternoon.

Congratulations on the great job you're doing with a very difficult situation. I can't imagine how you can even try to keep up with the way the digital world is changing so rapidly, so I commend you on the job you are doing. I think it's reassuring to Canadians to know that it's ultimately possible to have security and privacy, and I think you made that very clear.

You talked quite a bit about the increased complaints, the number of new pieces of legislation you've had to comment on, department policies, and of course the new technology. One thing I'm extremely interested in is public education and how that is going.

You also talked about establishing the new privacy priority issues, and the exercise you're going through and hoping to have completed by spring 2015. I wonder if you could give us an update on what steps you've taken so far and who may be involved with this, if it's possible to talk about that. Give us a bit more of an idea about what direction you may be going in.

[Daniel Therrien]

Thank you.

The OPC under Madame Stoddart had four such priorities, and they served the organization very well during her tenure. With my arrival, I think it's timely to modernize these priorities, and it was foreseen that this would be done even before I arrived. I intend to look at these priorities in light of the current environment and the current issues. I want to consult with various sectors in society on what the priorities of the office should be over the next however many years, say five years.

We will consult in five cities across Canada, from January to February or March, with various sectors of the population: certainly the private sector, which would be affected by PIPEDA; civil society; academia; consumer groups; and focus groups of the general population, because I think they too have something to say about what is of concern to them in terms of privacy. We would like to hear from certain representatives of the general population regarding their concerns so that they can be taken into consideration as we develop our priorities. I want to do that in a consultative and inclusive way.

After these sessions, we will sit down in the office and determine how to reflect these comments in new strategic priorities, which goes directly to the subject matter of the meeting today. We want to ensure we are the most effective in how we use our resources, and having modernized priorities will help us focus our activity so that we are as effective as possible.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Can you talk a little bit about anything that might be done now with regard to public education?

[Daniel Therrien]

Yes. We have quite a few activities on that front. For instance, with respect to youth, who are obviously big consumers of new technologies, we have products and we send material to schools and educators, who can use these to inform young people about privacy concerns. We have had many interactions with relatively large businesses over the years. We are finding out that small and medium-sized businesses know less about their privacy obligations than perhaps they ought to, so we want to focus part of our public education activities with respect to small and medium-sized businesses, which hold quite a bit of information about individuals.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

I'm afraid that concludes your time, Ms. Davidson.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thanks very much.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Thank you, Mr. Therrien.

Before I hand the floor over to the NDP's Pierre-Luc Dusseault we need about two minutes at the end of the meeting to vote on the supplementary estimates, and a motion to report said estimates to Parliament. Therefore, we still have time for one complete five-minute round for Pierre-Luc, but I may have to stop you toward the end to conduct those mandatory votes.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I understand your role and that you have to limit speaking time.

Mr. Therrien, thank you for being here, and congratulations on your appointment. I had the opportunity to meet with your predecessor, Ms. Stoddart, a few times. She did a very good job. I am sure you will also meet this challenge. I have a few questions for you about your budget.

Your budget for last year was $29.1 million. This year, the main estimates (B) are $24.3 million, a decrease of $4.8 million. I was quite surprised by these figures.

A little earlier, it was mentioned that the budget had not increased, but had actually decreased. If I understand the numbers correctly, the expectation is that the budget will be reduced.

In 2013, there was a 17% increase in PIPEDA-related complaints compared to 2012. Do you think you have the resources you need to fulfill your mandate, given the reduction of close to $5 million compared to last year?

[Daniel Therrien]

Most of the reduction was related to the moving costs last year and will not come back, except in the form of repayment of the loan, which is about $200,000 a year for 15 years.

However, approximately $4 million that was spent last year will not be spent again. The difference between $29 million and $24 million is about $5 million. In other words, $4 million for the move and another $1 million related to 2012-13 budget cuts and the spending reduction program that affected all federal departments and agencies to the tune of about 5%.

The commissioner's office was not specifically targeted by this measure, but before my arrival, it was felt that the same effort should be made out of fairness. The contribution of the commissioner's office in this exercise is $1.1 million, and that is a recurring cut.

Will it be more difficult to achieve our objectives? Obviously, we will need to increase our efforts to be efficient. In the end, despite the cuts and as a result of the efficiency measures we have adopted, we have been able to increase the productivity of our investigations. So there are more completed investigations than before.

Again this year, we think that the number of completed files will increase, despite these cuts. We think we will be able to meet the demand, despite the cuts in question.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Do you also think you can meet the demand, despite the new legislation and the recent Supreme Court ruling? Do you not foresee the repercussions on your annual budget in terms of the necessary resources, which would mean that you could no longer operate properly in the new context?

[Daniel Therrien]

For the moment we can. In fact, we need to go through this exercise again and again because the demand, the number of complaints, the number of bills and so on is constantly changing. Currently, I think I have enough money to manage, but we need to go through this exercise continuously. Let me link this to establishing strategic priorities, which I just mentioned. We must deal with a certain number of operational activities, which includes studying the complaints that are submitted. It is important to look at bills. It is important to monitor the policy program to make relevant recommendations to Parliament on privacy legislation.

Once we have completed the strategic priority exercise, we will see whether we lack funds to meet all of these objectives. We will exercise our judgment at that point.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Thank you, Mr. Therrien.

That's exactly five minutes right on the button there.

Pierre-Luc Dusseault, we didn't have to shorten your time at all.

With that, we'll thank you very much, Privacy Commissioner of Canada, for being with us here today to speak to your supplementary estimates (B). You're welcome here any time, sir. We look forward to having you appear perhaps the next time you make your annual report to Parliament, if not sooner.

[Daniel Therrien]

Thank you.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Committee members, can I ask you to stay for a moment, please? We have two votes to deal with the supplementary estimates.

OFFICES OF THE INFORMATION AND PRIVACY COMMISSIONERS OF CANADA

Vote 5b—Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada—Program expenditures and contributions..........$58,900

(Vote 5b agreed to on division)

Shall the chair report vote 5b under the Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada to the House?