Evidence of meeting #84 for Finance in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was c-52.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Brian Ernewein  General Director, Tax Legislation Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Massimo Pacetti

I'd like to get started right away, because we only have about an hour with the minister.

We are here, pursuant to the order of reference of Tuesday, May 15, 2007, to examine Bill C-52, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 19, 2007.

Mr. Flaherty, do you have an opening statement for us? Yes, okay. So if you can keep it to a brief intervention, then members will have questions for you.

I appreciate your coming before us, taking time out of your day. The floor is yours. Thank you.

3:35 p.m.

Whitby—Oshawa Ontario

Conservative

Jim Flaherty ConservativeMinister of Finance

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am pleased to appear before the members of the committee today to discuss Bill C-52, which implements certain provisions of the 2007 budget, and other fiscal measures announced before the budget was presented.

I would note, as usual, that the remaining budget 2007 measures will be included in a second budget bill, which we will introduce in the fall session.

Since March 19 I've had the opportunity to travel across Canada to discuss the budget with Canadians from all walks of life. I've also had the opportunity to travel to New York and Tokyo and London to promote Canada and all that we have to offer.

People are aware of the fact that we're making our strong Canadian economy even stronger. They recognize that we are creating an environment that encourages investment, rewards hard work, and further opens the door for our investors and entrepreneurs and risk-takers.

Canadians have a right to be proud. Our country is a leader in the global economy. We have the most solid financial foundation of all the countries of the G-7. We are the only member country that continues to record budgetary surpluses and whose debt burden is being reduced.

Although we have only been the government for 15 months, we've moved the yardsticks considerably on a number of fronts, first with budget 2006, then our tax fairness plan, and then with budget 2007. Budget 2007 is an historic document that begins delivering on our long-term economic plan for Canada, called Advantage Canada.

Advantage Canada is a plan that seeks to mobilize the most compelling research, innovation, investment, and competitive forces in our society. It is a plan that sets out a bold and exciting course for a strong and united Canada, a Canada with purpose and passion that believes in itself and is a shining example to the world of what a great nation can be. It is a plan that will lead to a more rewarding future for Canadians and their families.

Advantage Canada focuses on creating five key advantages, which are reflected in this bill and reflected in budget 2007: first of all, a tax advantage, reducing taxes of all kinds and establishing the lowest tax rate on new business investment in the G-7; secondly, a fiscal advantage, eliminating Canada's total government net debt in less than a generation; third, an entrepreneurial advantage, reducing unnecessary regulation and red tape and increasing competition in the Canadian marketplace; fourth, a knowledge advantage, creating the best educated, most skilled, most flexible workforce in the world; and finally, an infrastructure advantage, building the modern bridges, roads, gateways we need to link our nation and make our workers and businesses more efficient.

Now, if we're to achieve these goals and maintain an upward trajectory, we need to adopt the measures contained in Bill C-52. As part of our plan to create a fiscal advantage for Canada, Bill C-52 proposes to enact our tax-back guarantee, which will provide taxpayers with a direct benefit from debt reduction. Lower debt will mean fewer interest payments, which will mean lower taxes every year.

The interest savings related to our national mortgage will be passed on to Canadians in the form of personal income tax relief. That relief will be permanent and ongoing.

Mr. Chair, I say and I repeat, Canadians are paying too much tax. This is why the government is also moving to create a Canadian tax advantage.

In fact, measures introduced by Canada's new government will reduce taxes for individuals by nearly $38 billion over three fiscal years. Bill C-52 proposes to implement several important tax relief measures, including the tax fairness plan I announced last October. Our plan increases the age credit amount by $1,000 to $5,066 as of January 2007. This will benefit low- and middle-income seniors by ensuring that less of their income will be subject to tax.

The plan also makes one of the most significant changes to the federal tax system to have been made in a long time. This is the decision to allow Canadian seniors, starting this year, to share up to half of their pension income with their common-law spouse.

Taken together, these measures will put some $1 billion a year more into the pockets of Canadian seniors.

Budget 2007 also proposes significant tax relief for Canadian families, a working families tax plan, and that relief is also set out in Bill C-52. The first part of the four-part plan helps Canadian families with children. The plan includes a new $2,000-per-child tax credit for children under the age of 18. It will provide more than 90% of tax-paying families with the maximum benefit of $310 per child.

The second part of the plan will increase the spousal and other amounts to the same level as the basic personal amount. Single-earner families will receive the same tax relief as that already provided through the basic personal amount to two-earner families; that is, the elimination of what has often been called the marriage penalty in Canada.

Third, the working families tax plan strengthens the registered education savings plan, RESP, to help parents save for their children's education. The $4,000 annual limit on RESP contributions will be eliminated and the lifetime limit will increase from $42,000 to $50,000. We will also improve access to RESP funds for part-time post-secondary students. Moreover, the maximum annual amount of the Canada education savings grant that can be paid in any year will be increased to $1,000 from $800, if there is unused grant room from previous years.

The fourth component of the working families tax plan builds on the tax fairness plan. It will raise the age limit for maturing RPPs and RRSPs to age 71 from age 69. This change recognizes that many older Canadians want to continue working and saving. It is important that we help them pursue these goals.

We are also committed to providing an economic environment in which Canadian businesses can thrive. In budget 2006 we reduced the corporate tax rate to 19% from 21%. Under the tax fairness plan, Bill C-52 proposes to reduce that rate by a further 0.5%, effective January 1, 2011, to 18.5%. Additional corporate tax measures in budget 2007 will be introduced in the second budget implementation bill, to which I referred earlier.

Of course, Mr. Chairman, there's much more to budget 2007 and to this bill than tax relief.

For example, in Bill C-52, Canada's New Government is proposing significant measures that will help to clean our environment and improve our health care system.

It is only through a healthier environment that Canadians can create the quality of life and standard of living to which we all aspire. With that goal in mind, budget 2007 invests $4.5 billion to clean our air and water, reduce greenhouse gases, combat climate change, and preserve our national treasures, which are also natural treasures, like the Great Bear rain forest on the central coast of British Columbia. Bill C-52 takes the first step by proposing to support major clean air and climate change projects through a new $1.5 billion Canada ecoTrust. This is an innovative way to engage the provinces and the territories and improve our environment for the benefit of future generations.

On health care, as we all know, Mr. Chairman, our health care system is an important part of what defines us as Canadians. That is why Canada's new government is committed to implementing the 10-year plan to strengthen health care. This will provide $41.3 billion in new federal funding over 10 years to the provinces and territories. In support of that commitment, Bill C-52 proposes to provide up to $612 million to help eligible provinces and territories move forward with patient wait time guarantees in key areas such as cancer treatment, heart procedures, diagnostic imaging, joint replacement, and sight restoration.

Mr. Chair, in order for Canada to be even better tomorrow, the national fiscal balance must be re-established, starting today. To do this, we must provide the provinces and territories with the funds they need.

The needs include such matters as an unprecedented and long-term investment in public infrastructure; better health care; better-equipped universities; cleaner oceans, rivers, lakes, and air; training to help Canadians get the skills they need.

Mr. Chairman, restoring fiscal balance is very much about building a stronger, safer, and better country.

I would also like to mention that the harmonized sales tax provinces—Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and Newfoundland and Labrador—have each announced their intention to participate in the foreign convention and tour incentive program proposed in Budget 2007. Accordingly, I am pleased to announce that the Government of Canada plans to propose motions to amend Bill C-52 to extend the application of the new program to the 8% provincial component of HST, effective April 1, 2007.

Given that such amendments have the effect of increasing the amount of the rebates to be paid under Bill C-52 it is the government's intent to seek a royal recommendation and to propose the motions at report stage.

In Bill C-52, Canada's new government is taking action by proposing a new formula that improves and enriches equalization, and a territorial formula of financing. It also puts major transfers, such as the Canada social transfer and Canada health transfer, on a more solid footing and makes treatment of provinces fairer for those transfers.

In fact, under Bill C-52 we are proposing to deliver more than $39 billion in additional funding to the provinces and territories. This is funding that will restore fiscal balance in Canada.

Mr. Chairman, that is what Bill C-52 is all about. I look forward to answering questions from the committee.

I should mention that officials from the Department of Finance are here with me to provide any further clarification the honourable members may wish to have on any of the measures in the bill.

Thank you.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Massimo Pacetti

Thank you, Mr. Flaherty, for your presentation.

Welcome to your finance department officials; I didn't have the chance to say it before. Many of them have appeared, some just as recently as yesterday, so they're no strangers to this committee.

Let us get started right away. We have a six-minute round. First of all we'll go to Mr. Turner, and then to Mr. Crête.

Mr. Turner, you have six minutes.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Garth Turner Conservative Halton, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and welcome, Mr. Flaherty and officials.

Mr. Flaherty, I have a couple questions about the tax fairness plan. First, Bill C-52 and certainly the speeches and pronouncements you have made repeatedly have mentioned pensioners and seniors as benefiting from this, and you have used that same language again this afternoon.

Is that not, however, a little bit misleading, certainly in terms of the pension-splitting provisions? I understand that one has to have income that qualifies for a pension tax credit before one can split income. In other words, if you are a 70-year-old working at Wal-Mart and don't have registered pension income, you can't split your income.

How does this benefit seniors?

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Jim Flaherty Conservative Whitby—Oshawa, ON

I'll refer the technical part of it to one of the officials here, but I want to thank the member for supporting the pension-splitting for seniors and pensioners in Canada when he was a Conservative.

I refer to the officials on the—

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garth Turner Conservative Halton, ON

Actually, just for the record, the minister opposed me when I proposed income-splitting when I was with the Conservatives. It was only after I left the Conservative Party that the government adopted this. But thank you, Minister, for trying to clarify.

Could we please have your statement about...? I am concerned that we have been misleading seniors. Many seniors believe that simply because they are over the age of 65, they can income-split. That's incorrect.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Jim Flaherty Conservative Whitby—Oshawa, ON

No, of course not, and no one ever said that. It's pension income; you know that. It's not salaried income; it's pension income.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garth Turner Conservative Halton, ON

No, I'd like you to clarify—

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Jim Flaherty Conservative Whitby—Oshawa, ON

I just did.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garth Turner Conservative Halton, ON

—that a senior who has earned income—

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Jim Flaherty Conservative Whitby—Oshawa, ON

This is pension income, not employment income. You know that.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garth Turner Conservative Halton, ON

I just want to make sure, because a lot of people, Minister, do not know that, and they get misled when you use the word “seniors” repeatedly.

I have a second question, and that is regarding single seniors who do not have the ability to split pension income. Actually, single seniors will be paying—or are paying—more tax than they were under the previous government regime, certainly in basic tax.

I have the 2005 tax return here, which shows the 15% income tax rate on $35,595. In 2006 that goes to 15.25%, and in subsequent years it's going to 15.5%. So we have an incremental increase in the basic income tax rate.

How is that fair to single seniors who can't income-split?

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Jim Flaherty Conservative Whitby—Oshawa, ON

As I mentioned a few minutes ago, the single exemption is being dealt with as part of the marriage penalty issue. As you know, we've increased the credits in the tax fairness plan that was announced last October.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garth Turner Conservative Halton, ON

All right. But the basic rate has gone up for single seniors. Is that correct?

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Jim Flaherty Conservative Whitby—Oshawa, ON

No. If you're talking about one of the three budgets your current party introduced, there were certain measures announced, and so on, that did not become law.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garth Turner Conservative Halton, ON

All right. But your first budget raised the basic rate from 15% to 15.5%.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Jim Flaherty Conservative Whitby—Oshawa, ON

I can't raise something that did not become law.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garth Turner Conservative Halton, ON

But it was in effect the rate that the taxpayers were paying. Is that correct?

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Jim Flaherty Conservative Whitby—Oshawa, ON

I can't change a figure that is not the law of the country. It's different when a bill passes, as our two budget bills did, from budget 2006.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garth Turner Conservative Halton, ON

Right. But I have in my hand the Canada Revenue Agency tax form that taxpayers would have had to fill out, which shows 15%. I now have a 2006 form in my hand, which shows 15.25%. It is an increase. How is that fair to single seniors?

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Jim Flaherty Conservative Whitby—Oshawa, ON

If you want to get into parliamentary procedure, as you know, there's a ways and means motion.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garth Turner Conservative Halton, ON

It's not actually parliamentary, Minister. It's the actual CRA tax form.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Jim Flaherty Conservative Whitby—Oshawa, ON

Do you want me to answer or not?

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garth Turner Conservative Halton, ON

Yes.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Jim Flaherty Conservative Whitby—Oshawa, ON

All right. When a ways and means motion passes with tax measures in it, as you know, the CRA will begin to administer it. The 15.5% you're referring to did not in fact pass through a budget bill in the House of Commons and receive royal assent. It never became law.

By the way, the reduction in the GST by one percentage point is a huge tax change in Canada. As you know, it benefits everybody in Canada, whether they pay taxes or not, including seniors, of course.