Finance Committee on June 12th, 2008

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

You have a couple more minutes if you want.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Okay, very good.

So if we can get that bill, and maybe while you're voting—I'm assuming you're going to vote on the concurrence motion—I want to see if you could go through it and have a look, and then when you come back you can tell us what the differences are, word for word, between those two bills. I want to make sure you've read them both. I know you read the first one for sure, because you already voted against it.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

I read the first one. I read the second one.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

And so did all the Liberal members who were part of the committee that dealt with it. So I'm looking forward to that.

Of the ten issues that had been highlighted in the November 17, 2005 proceedings, which ones have you incorporated as amendments in the bill?

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

I think, Mr. Chair, it was a matter of interpretation. The questions were raised, and they've been duly answered, and I think they've been clarified. There were questions raised by the committee. We've looked at them. We've taken the work of the Canadian Association of Fire Chiefs. We've talked to others, and those answers are there before you.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

I appreciate that you think there are no changes.

Mr. Gingras, do you have any wording changes from the one bill to the next?

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

What needed to be addressed were the questions raised, and those were—

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

No, you've made your point, Mr. Easter. I appreciate that.

Mr. Gingras, from the finance department staff perspective, other than the number changes, have there been any changes between the two bills?

[Yves Gingras]

There have been changes to the numbers for the thresholds of hours and the amounts that are involved. Otherwise, we don't see changes.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

So you do not see other changes in that bill?

[Yves Gingras]

No.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Okay.

So maybe, Mr. Easter, you can look for those changes that others seem to have missed.

This is why I think we needed more time. I think somebody mentioned that we're filibustering. I think this is legitimate. I have legitimate concerns with what's happening here in terms of a tax deduction, and to whom it applies. We've had one meeting on it, with people who have come to see us who believe it applies to them. And there's some confusion even from the mover of the bill as to whether it applies to them or not. His interpretation is that it doesn't. Their interpretation is that it does. The outcome of the finance department discussion today is that they're not sure. So that's why I think it needs to be clarified, and I know the bells are ringing.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

You may be confused, Mr. Wallace, but I'm not.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Our time has gone. We will suspend the meeting now until after the votes, and then we'll reconvene. You can leave your stuff on the desks if you like.

The meeting is suspended.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

I would like to call the meeting back to order. We are in our question and answer period. I see Mr. Wallace's name back on the list, and Mr. Wallace is at the table.

Mr. Wallace, you have the floor.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Did the mover of the motion have a chance to look at the two bills?

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Yes.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Could you highlight for me the differences between Bill C-219 and Bill C-273?

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Just to give you a bit of history here, Mr. Wallace—

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Just for the committee's information, we have those bills and we'll be passing them around to the rest of the committee.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

—I had drafted Bill C-273, and as a result of other events, couldn't put it forward, but Mr. Cuzner did. There's virtually no difference between Bill C-273 and this bill.

However—if I can get Mr. Wallace's attention—where you're confused, Mr. Wallace, is that the bill I voted against was Bill C-325, which was put forward by Mr. Casson. That bill was substantially different, as I said earlier, in that it only dealt with paid volunteers.

For the record, Bill C-273 wasn't voted on, on March 7, 2005; it was just agreed at the House to go to committee. So there wasn't a standing vote, and I was supportive of Bill C-273 because, as I said, I originally drafted it.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Concerning the difference between Bill C-273 and Bill C-219, I believe Bill C-273 had amendments.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

The only difference between Bill C-273 and Bill C-219 is the numbers: $500 and $1,000; and $1,000 and $2,000.

There's a huge difference, though, in terms of what Bill C-219 and Bill C-325—which was the Casson bill—applied to and how it operated.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Okay. Then based on your support of Bill C-273 previously and saying it's the same wording now, you've just testified to us that it affects only emergency workers—fire, I'm assuming ambulance, and so on. But both bills are broader than that. Do you want to bring an amendment to that?

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Well, I understand there are a couple of not very substantive amendments coming forward: one to deal with basically the numbering as a result of changes to the Income Tax Act since the bill was originally put forward; and one to deal with section 60.04, which Mr. Gingras mentioned earlier.

The problem with Bill C-273 was that the finance committee at the time basically left the impression that they supported it in principle, but they raised ten questions. Those ten questions, I believe, have now been answered. They've been answered by the fire chiefs, and I agree with those answers and—