Evidence of meeting #54 for Finance in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was evasion.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Lyse Ricard  Deputy Commissioner, Canada Revenue Agency
Brian Ernewein  General Director, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Richard Montroy  Deputy Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Programs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Lucie Bergevin  Director General, International and Large Business Directorate, Compliance Programs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

I call this meeting to order. This is the 54th meeting of the Standing Committee on Finance.

Our orders today are pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), a study of tax evasion and offshore bank accounts. This is our first meeting on this topic.

To start this study off we have two departments here with us today. We want to thank them for coming in this afternoon. We have three officials from the Canada Revenue Agency and we have two officials from Finance Canada. Thank you for being with us here, ladies and gentlemen.

We do have opening remarks from the Canada Revenue Agency. I believe Ms. Ricard will be presenting on behalf of CRA, and then Finance will be available for questions.

Please begin your presentation.

3:30 p.m.

Lyse Ricard Deputy Commissioner, Canada Revenue Agency

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity to discuss the Canada Revenue Agency's ongoing efforts to combat aggressive international tax planning and tax evasion. My remarks will be in English and in French.

The CRA is committed to protecting the integrity of the Canadian tax system by combatting tax avoidance and tax evasion on all levels. Briefly, I would like to outline—

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Excuse me, the interpreter is saying the sound system is not working.

Do you want me to suspend?

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

We're back to order. I apologize for that. Please begin your presentation again.

3:35 p.m.

Deputy Commissioner, Canada Revenue Agency

Lyse Ricard

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity to discuss the Canada Revenue Agency's ongoing effort to combat aggressive international tax planning and tax evasion.

The CRA is committed to protecting the integrity of the Canadian tax system by combatting tax avoidance and tax evasion on all levels. Briefly, I'd like to outline what we mean when we refer to tax avoidance and tax evasion.

Tax avoidance involves minimizing tax by contravening the object and spirit of the law but not the letter of the law. It can lead to significant financial penalties in interest. Tax evasion involves a deliberate underreporting of tax payable—for example, by concealing income or assets and making false statements. Tax evasion is a crime. So in addition to being reassessed for taxes, interest, and penalties, taxpayers who are convicted could spend time in jail and pay court-imposed fines of up to 200% of the tax they sought to evade.

The key to the CRA's domestic and international strategy to prevent aggressive tax planning and tax evasion, in addition to active enforcement, is to make it easy for taxpayers to comply with their tax obligations, while ensuring that the consequences of avoiding or evading tax are serious.

The problem of hiding income and assets in foreign jurisdictions is a serious one for many countries around the world, including Canada.

When Canadians don't pay their taxes, they take resources away from health care, child care, employment insurance, pensions and other programs. Companies that don't pay their taxes gain an unfair advantage over businesses that do.

We expect taxpayers to operate in good faith. If they enter into financial transactions where the express purpose is to avoid or evade taxes, we take action. And the consequences are serious.

Canada is not the only country combatting international aggressive tax planning and tax evasion. These are global problems.

Along with our partners in the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development, Canada is a leader in setting and implementing internationally agreed-upon tax standards. The G-20 leaders, including Canada, announced an end to the era of bank secrecy in April 2009. They publicly committed to taking action against uncooperative jurisdictions, including tax havens.

Canada's close relationship with its international partners exemplifies how countries can use information exchange to uncover information relating to aggressive international tax avoidance schemes and information to combat tax evasion. This close relationship is founded upon Canada's network of 87 tax treaties, one of the largest in the world, which allows us to exchange information with other countries.

We are working hard to increase the flow of information by negotiating new tax information exchange agreements, including updating existing treaties and enhancing administrative arrangements with other countries. The CRA has increased the resources devoted to international tax issues. In the last five years, the number of full-time employees working in the CRA aggressive tax planning area has doubled, and the number of full-time employees working on international audit is up by 44%.

We have staff centres of expertise across Canada with senior audit professionals and specialists in international tax and tax avoidance. Since 2006 we have audited more than 6,700 cases, identifying $3.5 billion in unpaid taxes through our efforts to combat aggressive international tax planning. In 2009 alone, we uncovered $1 billion in unpaid tax involving international activities.

The CRA also combats tax avoidance in the courts. The “unnamed person” requirement is a judicial authorization that allows the CRA to obtain information. We also use it for tax avoidance schemes that rely on bank secrecy in foreign jurisdiction to hide income or ownership and control of assets. Using the unnamed requirement, we are able to require that a person or a company provide information regarding an unnamed third party. The CRA has used the unnamed requirement in many domestic and international cases.

Education is also an important element of our strategy. We use community visits, speaking engagements, publications, and our website to ensure that Canadians are aware of the consequences of evasion.

The CRA has been successful in communicating its message about those consequences. That is an important contributor to the significant increase in the number of taxpayers coming forward with previously undisclosed assets through the Voluntary Disclosures Program (VDP).

When taxpayers come forward through the VDP, and their disclosures meet the criteria requirements required to qualify for the VDP, they are still required to pay all taxes owing, plus interest.

The number of disclosures through the VDP has steadily increased over the past few years. Last year, the CRA received almost 3,000 disclosures resulting in $138 million in unpaid tax revenue, and the results so far this year show a continued increase.

Identifying and addressing international aggressive tax planning and tax evasion is a significant undertaking for the CRA. It requires a long-term commitment to gathering intelligence, building international partnerships and educating Canadians about the consequences of tax evasion and aggressive tax planning.

Each year, the CRA increases its understanding of tax avoidance and evasion schemes, the institutions involved in them and the best ways to bring them to an end.

As taxpayers become increasingly aware of the CRA's expertise and success in this area, the CRA moves closer to its goal of compelling all taxpayers to comply voluntarily with Canada's tax laws.

Thank you again, Mr. Chair, for providing this opportunity to discuss our ongoing efforts to combat aggressive tax planning. We would be pleased to answer any questions you may have.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you for your presentation.

We will begin with Mr.—

I'm sorry, I was told that Finance does not....

Does Finance have a short opening statement?

3:40 p.m.

Brian Ernewein General Director, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

I'd like to introduce myself and my colleague, if I may, and we could make a couple of remarks, if the committee wishes to have us do so.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Please do.

I'm sorry; I thought you did not have one.

3:40 p.m.

General Director, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Brian Ernewein

My name is Brian Ernewein. I'm the general director in the tax policy branch at the Department of Finance. I'm joined by my colleague, Alain Castonguay, who's the head of our tax treaty and tax information exchange agreement section at Finance.

Thank you very much for the opportunity to appear before the committee today to discuss the subject of offshore bank accounts held by Canadians, the actions being taken by Canada to combat international tax evasion, and Canada's involvement regarding the work of the Global Forum on Transparency and Exchange of Information for Tax Purposes.

Since 1996, the OECD project on harmful tax practices, with Canada's participation, has identified a lack of transparency and of exchange of tax information as undermining the ability of tax administrations to enforce their tax laws and to combat international tax evasions.

By way of context for this, a number of jurisdictions have maintained bank secrecy laws that made it an offence for any bank to share information about its clients with anyone, including foreign governments. Such laws can encourage Canadians to use banks in these jurisdictions either to hide money or to earn investment income that they don't intend to report in Canada. This, of course, is fundamentally unfair to the vast majority of Canadians who report all of their income and pay their taxes.

In 2000, OECD and non-OECD countries, including Canada, formed a Global Forum on Transparency and Exchange of Information to promote the OECD standards of transparency and effective exchange of tax information—what we refer to as the OECD standard.

Basically, the OECD standards with regard to bilateral agreements posit three simple ideas. First, a country should provide another country with tax information when such information is pertinent to the administration of tax laws in the other country.

Second, the exchange of tax information should not be covered by any domestic legislation that guarantees tax secrecy.

Third—and this applies particularly to countries that do not impose any taxes—a country should provide tax information notwithstanding the fact that it might not have any domestic interest in the requested tax information.

The OECD standards implemented through the conclusion of tax treaties and tax information exchange agreements—TIEAs, as we call them—enable tax authorities to access information relevant to their tax matters in order to better enforce and administer their tax laws and to help prevent international tax evasion. The Global Forum drafted the text of a TIEA that has since been used by most jurisdictions, including Canada, as a model to negotiate bilateral tax information exchange agreements.

The turning point in the implementation of the OECD standard was the 2009 G-20 summit in London. In April 2009, the leaders of the G-20 stated that they stood ready to take action and deploy sanctions to protect the public finances and financial systems of their countries against jurisdictions and tax havens that have either not committed to the OECD standard or have failed to implement it.

Since that time, the pace of negotiation of TIEAs and of protocols to incorporate the OECD standard in tax treaties has increased dramatically. We've checked back, and as of April 2009 there were 65 TIEAs and protocols that had been negotiated internationally. As of October of this year, that number is above 560.

What are we doing to combat international tax evasion here in Canada? In Budget 2007, the Government of Canada announced a policy that introduced incentives to have non-treaty countries enter into TIEAs with Canada that include the OECD standard on tax information exchange. The 2007 budget also stated as a government policy that all new treaties and revisions to existing treaties would also have to include the new standard for tax information exchange.

To date, we've signed 11 TIEAs, and we hope all of these will enter into force next year so that CRA can start to rely on them to obtain information from the jurisdictions they cover. We've also been involved in TIEA negotiations with 14 other jurisdictions, and we hope to conclude negotiations and seek approval of these TIEAs so that they may be signed as soon as possible.

Of Canada's 87 tax treaties in force currently, all but seven meet the current OECD standard regarding exchange of tax information. Of those seven that do not, we've recently signed a protocol with one of them—that is Switzerland—to bring the new standard into play and have commenced negotiations or renegotiations with each of the other six to update the exchange of information provisions in those treaties so that they meet the OECD standard. Again, we hope to conclude negotiations and seek approval of those revised treaties as soon as they can be signed, and we hope that signature comes as soon as possible.

Finally, there are other provisions in our income tax laws, either in force or currently proposed, that can be important tools in dealing with international tax avoidance. These include our foreign reporting rules, the taxation of investments in foreign investment entities, proposals to tighten our non-resident trust regime, and new reporting obligations in the last budget for those who participate in aggressive tax transactions.

I won't review the details of any of those rules in my opening remarks, but perhaps there's an opportunity to discuss them during the questions today.

Thank you.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you for your presentation.

We'll begin with Mr. Szabo for seven minutes.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Thank you.

Thank you to all the representatives for Finance and CRA.

The statement was that the number of full-time employees working on international audits is up by 44% since 2006. That's pretty substantial. I recall that some time ago CRA audits related to anonymous phone calls or tips from the Canadian public were actually farmed out to accounting firms or to accountants or other investigators who could do a lot of the work, and the recovery rate was 1,700% return for every dollar spent by engaging outside persons, not full-time people.

Are you aware of that? And why is it that we have to have the full-time people when there are so many people already engaged in the process internationally?

3:50 p.m.

Deputy Commissioner, Canada Revenue Agency

Lyse Ricard

If I understand your question, you're asking why we hire full-time people.

I'm not certain I understand your question.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

That's right, you don't.

CRA was farming out to agencies—to accounting firms, to people who had knowledge of it, who were in the business—to do the audits on a client basis: “Here's somebody. Go and have a look at it.” When I was on the finance committee last, back in the late 1990s, the return reported was 1,700%.

That makes a lot of sense to me, compared with having full-time employees.

Maybe you would understand the question this way. You have this 44% increase in full-time employees. What return have you received on that increase in the number of employees, then?

3:50 p.m.

Deputy Commissioner, Canada Revenue Agency

Lyse Ricard

Is it returns in terms of how much tax revenue they recover per person that is your question?

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Why don't we try something else?

3:50 p.m.

Richard Montroy Deputy Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Programs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

I was going to attempt to answer the first part of your question, Mr. Chair.

If I understand the question correctly, it seemed to infer that we were farming out to the outside public the audit workload that the CRA would undertake. To my knowledge, we have never farmed out auditing activities to practitioners. The CRA audits and—

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

The minister at the time was Jane Stewart, and she announced it in the House. It was a billion-dollar recovery during the year that she referred to. You can check back on that, but it was happening and it makes a great deal of sense.

With regard to the 1,700 accounts that came out in the Swiss and Liechtenstein issue, what is the approach that the government is using with regard to those accounts, how long is it going to take, and what kinds of returns can be expected on pursuing those accounts?

3:50 p.m.

Lucie Bergevin Director General, International and Large Business Directorate, Compliance Programs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

I can try to answer that. The audit process for any of those audits is long. It's a long process just because of the nature of the audit we're doing. The first step is to do a risk analysis. When we got information from Liechtenstein, we did a risk analysis and narrowed down where the risk was and did some audits.

If I'm not mistaken, we did 26 audits as of June 2010. I think as of October we're up to 30 audits, and we're still doing some. But it is a long process simply because, as you can imagine, it's information from abroad. It takes longer to get information from abroad. The information we get is also not complete. Often we don't have the social insurance number or the address, so we need to match this with our system.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

But again, you have no idea how much money is spent to do this and what kind of return we could expect to get back from it?

3:50 p.m.

Director General, International and Large Business Directorate, Compliance Programs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

Lucie Bergevin

We don't speculate on the amounts we can get.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

On the voluntary disclosure program, when was the process developed and when was the last time it was reviewed in terms of how those cases are conducted?

3:55 p.m.

Deputy Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Programs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

Richard Montroy

The voluntary disclosure program originated in 1973. It has existed in that form for a long time. We have made changes over the years to the program. As recently as this past year, we looked to make sure that our program continued to meet its objectives.

As Madame Ricard pointed out in her opening statement, the numbers of voluntary disclosures have continued to increase in the last few years—not only the disclosures but the amount of money the government collects through the voluntary disclosure program. It's a very successful program. We feel that the reason for the numbers having increased for VDP is due to the efforts of the government on such things as the tax exchange information agreements, the various other measures we've undertaken—

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Okay. The point I want to get to before my time runs out is that people can do this on an anonymous basis, which isn't the same as if people are having their tax returns audited and have to sit there and provide the details and show their face.

Brian Mulroney got a voluntary disclosure situation and landed up having to pay a lot less tax than any other Canadian probably would or has in history when found to have not declared income. That's why I raise the process. Have you considered whether or not the situation of Mr. Mulroney should warrant a review of the process under the voluntary program?

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Just give a very brief response, please.

3:55 p.m.

Deputy Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Programs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

Richard Montroy

The voluntary disclosure program was reviewed this year, as I pointed out, and we feel that it's a very successful program. When someone comes to the CRA, they come on a no name basis, but they have to provide all the information needed. Once we agree to the voluntary disclosure, then the name of the person is given to us and we undertake the examination of the file to ensure that the information we have is correct.