Finance Committee on Nov. 1st, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for being with us. We appreciate your attendance here....

Mr. Adler, I apologize.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I just want to ask a quick question.

Why is the funding legislated to start in 2014-15 and not immediately?

[Sebastian Badour]

There's already funding until 2013-14. It was provided for in Budget 2007 as part of the Building Canada plan, and we've already signed agreements on that until then with provinces, territories, municipal associations, and the City of Toronto.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

That's it?

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Adler.

I want to thank you two gentlemen for coming here and responding to our questions.

I have the final part to deal with, which is part 18, the Canada Elections Act.

I will state again that this is not a political debate about whether we should have this or not. That's between political parties. This is for questions dealing with the technical implementation of it. Okay?

If we could have our two officials introduce themselves, please....

[Matthew Lynch, Privy Council Officer, Legislation and House Planning/Counsel, Privy Council Office]

Good evening. My name is Matthew Lynch. I'm director of democratic reform at the Privy Council Office.

[Frédéric St-Martin, Policy Advisor, Democratic Reform, Privy Council Office]

My name is Frédéric St-Martin, Policy Advisor at the Privy Council Office.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Welcome.

The question is for Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. St-Martin and Mr. Lynch, for being here this evening.

The notes on Bill C-13 actually mention other types of taxpayer support at the electoral level. It is estimated that the change set out in Bill C-13 will involve $30 million.

Could you tell me how much is spent on other things, such as the 50% reimbursement of political parties' election expenses, the reimbursement of up to 60% of eligible candidate spending in their riding and tax credits for contributions to political parties? I assume you don't have those figures, but it would be beneficial to know roughly how much the Senate costs taxpayers.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

A point of order, Mr. Lake.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I'm subbing in on this committee, but it seems to me, in looking at this section, that it doesn't deal with anything that Mr. Julian is talking about. So I would say that it doesn't seem to be within the scope of the bill at all.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Mr. Julian, you're asking about other credits not affected by this piece of legislation. Can you explain why you're asking?

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Well, they're mentioned in the briefing notes from the minister, of course, Mr. Chair, so obviously if the briefing notes from the minister talk about those three other aspects of political support, taxpayer-funded political support in the system, it is part of this committee's work to ensure that we can compare the $30 million contained within Bill C-13 to the other taxpayer-supported contributions mentioned by the minister in his briefing notes.

Part 18, page 1--the minister talks about it, so obviously it's legitimate to ask.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

I think in the minister's briefing notes to committee, it's fair to say he may mention things that are not in the actual bill itself.

I don't know whether these two gentlemen want to comment on those—

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

If they have the information.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

If they want to, but it is beyond the scope of the bill—Mr. Lake is correct on that—so….

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

And it is available publicly.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

I'll just give it to the officials if they want to address this.

[Matthew Lynch]

Well, we do have the information.

If I understand correctly, you're asking for the estimated value of the tax credit, the reimbursements to political parties and the reimbursements to candidates.

The tax credit—they're only estimates. They're provided by the Department of Finance and they vary from year to year, and of course they vary depending on whether there's an election. In 2010, the estimate was $21 million. In 2008, it was $32 million. So that's the range.

The reimbursements to political parties, of course, is only during election years. For 2008, from the information I have, it was $29 million, and for candidates—again I only have following each election—it was $25 million.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Thank you very much. That's very important, and I appreciate your coming prepared. Obviously, you anticipated that this would be the type of question that would come.

If you don't mind working very quickly with your calculator, I have a total then of taxpayer-funded support for the political system of $32 million, if we include taxpayer-funded contributions for registered political parties; $25 million for candidates; and $29 million in total for registered parties. That puts us at $86 million. Would that be an accurate figure for those three categories, if we add them together?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Mr. Julian, asking the officials to add...I'm going to ask you to state your final question and then I'm going to move to the witnesses, and I'm going to do that as the chair because I'm following the agenda established by the three parties. So state your final question for the officials, and then we're moving on.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Well, that was my final question.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Your final question is to ask them to pull out a calculator and add up some figures for you?

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Well, they would have the total. They've come very well prepared, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Mr. Lynch, do you want to borrow my BlackBerry and add up these figures?

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

It looks to me like it's $86 million. Perhaps they could confirm that.