Finance Committee on April 3rd, 2012

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West—Glanbrook, ON]

So what we have—

[Debbie Zimmerman]

In fact, they have laws that actually encourage that growth, and discourage the growth of imports.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West—Glanbrook, ON]

Okay.

So what we have—just for all my colleagues—is that in most wine-producing markets in the world, they own their own markets. Then they come into our markets, where we own only 25% of the markets, or 30% or whatever the case is. I just want to be clear and have that on the record.

I think people fail to understand that our small producers—I realize that we also have a couple of big producers in the country—struggle in terms of trying to get access to market share.

[Debbie Zimmerman]

Yes, very much so.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West—Glanbrook, ON]

Is that fair?

[Debbie Zimmerman]

Absolutely.

[A voice]

Yes.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West—Glanbrook, ON]

So I guess the challenge I have is that what we're trying to do today, the whole point behind Mr. Albas's bill, is to try to increase that market share for local producers or for VQA.

I think it's fair to say that this is what you understand the bill to be as well?

[Debbie Zimmerman]

The only caution, again, is it opens up to the importers as well.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West—Glanbrook, ON]

No, fair enough; fair enough in terms of that.

Let's just change gears quickly, because five minutes goes by way too quickly. Let's talk about the bill the way it's written.

With the bill the way it's written, if there are no amendments, or amendments aren't taken or don't move forward, do you think you can work with your local jurisdictions to come up with some reasonable amounts given what we've talked about today in terms of the intent and where we're trying to go with this bill?

Just talk to me about your concerns or your thoughts on working with provincial jurisdictions—who, just to clarify, are going to set the amounts anyway.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Mr. Bosc.

[Paul-André Bosc]

We would be delighted, either as individual producers or trade association members, to share with liquor regulators across the country.

We'd be delighted to help them define “reasonable” based on the many examples around the world. If an amount is reasonable for an American, and in the U.S. it seems to be as high as.... An annual threshold is 40 cases, but often it's defined as 18 or 20 cases annually.

Many places have dealt with this issue, and we'd be delighted to share that information and help define what's reasonable. I have my own idea of what's reasonable.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West—Glanbrook, ON]

Sure.

Ms. Dawson, you guys work with the LCBO all the time. What are your thoughts on being able to deal with them and connect with them?

[Hillary Dawson]

I think it's not just “reasonable”; it's also how the transactions can happen, right? Let's find an environment where we can have some modern commercial relationships, 21st-century relationships, with our customer that, frankly, “personal transport” doesn't address.

So yes, it will be an ongoing dialogue not only with the liquor board but with the Government of Ontario—and governments across Canada, quite frankly, because we want the consumers from other provinces to take our wine and order our wine back there.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West—Glanbrook, ON]

True.

[Hillary Dawson]

So it's a national effort. It's an ongoing effort on our part. We're hopeful that the liquor boards will be receptive, because it's not just the limit, it's how.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West—Glanbrook, ON]

Sure. That's a good point.

Mr. Prodan, did you have something to add?

[Miles Prodan]

[Inaudible--Editor]...like Ms. Dawson, in B.C. I think we'd have no problem in having that conversation. It's the other provinces where I can't speak to, but those are the markets that we want to reach to.

What constitutes “reasonable” is the discussion point we need to address.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West—Glanbrook, ON]

Okay.

So we'll try to open the door with this bill, and then you may need some help to keep it forced open, I guess. That's what we're going to have to say as we move forward.

All right. Thank you very much. Those are all the questions I have. Thank you once again for taking the time to come up here today and talk to us.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you very much, Mr. Allison.

To the witnesses, I want to thank all of you for your presentations and for your excellent discussions in responding to our questions.

Colleagues, we will suspend for about 30 seconds. Then we will go to clause-by-clause consideration of the bill.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

I call the meeting back to order. I'd ask colleagues to find their seats, please.

Witnesses are free to sit and observe the committee.

Colleagues, we do have Bill C-311. We also have a motion by Mr. Mai.

I'm just informed that we have bells at 5:15. I thought we had a little more time than that, but we're on compressed time.

We all know Bill C-311. We have one clause.

I have no amendments, as the chair.

Is there any discussion on clause 1 of Bill C-311?

(Clause 1 agreed to)

Shall the title carry?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Shall the bill carry?

Monsieur Giguère.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

I just have one question, Mr. Chair.

Is the date of coming into effect the same as the date of royal assent, or is there a gap? Since the bill affects federal and provincial jurisdiction, and in connection with another section of this bill, when we amend the act dealing with a federal-provincial agreement, is there not a notice date?

Let me ask the legal expert. If I am not mistaken, there is a waiting period.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay, Mr. Giguère.

Ms. McLeod, do you wish to speak to this?