Evidence of meeting #70 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site.) The winning word was clauses.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Gordon Boissonneault  Senior Advisor, Economic Analysis and Forecasting Division, Demand and Labour Analysis, Economic and Fiscal Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Sue Foster  Acting Director General, Policy, Appeals and Quality, Service Canada
Margaret Strysio  Director, Strategic Planning and Reporting, Parks Canada Agency
Stephen Bolton  Director, Border Law Enforcement Strategies Division, Public Safety Canada
Michael Zigayer  Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
Garry Jay  Chief Superintendent, Acting Director General, HR Workforce Programs and Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Jeff Hutcheson  Director, HQ Programs and Financial Advisory Services, Coporate Management and Comptrollership, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Darryl Hirsch  Senior Policy Analyst, Intelligence Policy and Coordination, Department of Public Safety
Ian Wright  Executive Advisor, Financial Markets Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Nigel Harrison  Manager, Legislative and Parliamentary Affairs, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
David Lee  Director, Office of Legislative and Regulatory Modernization, Policy, Planning and International Affairs Directorate, Health Products and Food Branch, Department of Health
Anthony Giles  Director General, Strategic Policy, Analysis and Workplace Information Directorate, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Bruno Rodrigue  Chief, Income Security, Federal-Provincial Relations and Social Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Gerard Peets  Senior Director, Strategy and Planning Directorate, Department of Industry
Suzanne Brisebois  Director General, Policy and Operations, Parole Board of Canada, Public Safety Canada
Louise Laflamme  Chief, Marine Policy and Regulatory Affairs, Department of Transport
Judith Buchanan  Acting Senior Manager, Labour Standards Operations, Human Resources and Skills Development Canada
Mark Hodgson  Senior Policy Analyst, Labour Markets, Employment and Learning, Department of Finance
Stephen Johnson  Director General, Evaluation Directorate, Strategic Policy and Research Branch, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
James McNamee  Deputy Director, Horizontal Immigration Policy Division, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Graham Barr  Director General, Transition Planning and Coordination, Shared Services Canada

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB

I just want to finish, if I may, Mr. Chair.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Yes, sure.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB

Having said all of that, Monsieur Boissonneault, I thank you for the clarification.

I would ask opposition members to seriously consider taking this respected and trusted Auditor General at his word and to not try to put words in his mouth or make assumptions about any potential reason this might have occurred, other than to take the reason he's provided at face value.

Those would be my comments.

Thank you, Chair.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you.

I have Mr. Brison on the list.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Just on this, the reality is that the government is reducing the budget of the Auditor General. The Auditor General has to reduce oversight somewhere. This is where, given the choices, he has identified areas where he would remove his oversight.

I'm not attacking the Auditor General for doing that which he had to do, but it is a reality that it was in response to cuts to the Auditor General's office, and as such a reduction in oversight, scrutiny, and accountability of government on both a performance and a spending basis.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you.

Can I go to a vote, then, on...?

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB

Last comment, Mr. Chair.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

A last comment, Ms. Glover, please.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB

I just want to put on the record for Mr. Brison's benefit that he actually has the cart before the horse. All departments and heads of departments were asked to submit 5% and 10% plans to find inefficiencies in their departments. It was only after these proposals were made that the government came up with the deficit reduction action plan decisions.

So again, Mr. Brison actually has the cart before the horse and is wrong when he says that's the way it happened, because in fact it happened the other way. The submissions were made and then we took the Auditor General's recommendations and accepted these as being duplicative, unnecessary, and ineffective.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you.

I have a growing list here.

Monsieur Caron, and then Ms. Nash, please.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Like Ms. Glover, we should also state in writing that, before making his decision, the Auditor General received a letter from the Minister of Finance asking him to comply with the spirit of fiscal restraint that the government was going to enforce. That has certainly contributed to the Auditor General's decision to drop those 12 or 13 audits.

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Merci.

Ms. Nash, please.

4 p.m.

NDP

Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON

I have just two points.

If every department and agency was asked in fact to prepare a list of cuts that they thought made the most sense for the government's plan to cut spending, then I have to ask again, what was the consultant doing for $90,000 a day? Were they just compiling these lists of recommendations that civil servants had already compiled? I guess I'm contrasting the spending for this outside consultant with the austerity measures taking place within the government.

Second, if there weren't the government cuts, would the Auditor General have left this oversight in place?

I guess I ask Mr. Boissonneault that question.

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Mr. Boissonneault.

4 p.m.

Senior Advisor, Economic Analysis and Forecasting Division, Demand and Labour Analysis, Economic and Fiscal Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Gordon Boissonneault

Just to clarify, the Office of the Auditor General was not included in the formal part of the—

4 p.m.

NDP

Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON

I understand that. He did it voluntarily.

4 p.m.

Senior Advisor, Economic Analysis and Forecasting Division, Demand and Labour Analysis, Economic and Fiscal Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Gordon Boissonneault

It was voluntary. The letter the minister wrote was to all heads of departments and agencies that were not included in the review, asking them to conduct an internal evaluation of their expenses and costs. The responses to those letters varied considerably.

So it's unclear to what extent the Auditor General was motivated by that letter or if he'd already done his own internal assessment.

4 p.m.

NDP

Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON

Thank you.

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Just to follow up on Ms. Nash's question, you're saying that if the Auditor General had said, “I've reviewed our office's operations, and we are satisfied that all the operations conducted currently are satisfactory, are respectful of taxpayer dollars”, if he had responded that to the government, the government would have said, “We appreciate that. We respect that.”

4 p.m.

Senior Advisor, Economic Analysis and Forecasting Division, Demand and Labour Analysis, Economic and Fiscal Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Gordon Boissonneault

I can't speak on behalf of the government, but I can say that other organizations did respond in that manner.

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

And the government accepted their...?

4 p.m.

Senior Advisor, Economic Analysis and Forecasting Division, Demand and Labour Analysis, Economic and Fiscal Policy Branch, Department of Finance

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Okay. Thank you.

We've had a good discussion here.

Can I call clauses 170 to 204—I suspect on division?

4 p.m.

An hon. member

Yes, on division.

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

(Clauses 170 to 204 inclusive agreed to on division)

Thank you.

Thank you very much, Mr. Boissonneault.

I will now go to division 2, which deals with life annuity-like products. This deals with three clauses, 205 to 208. I do not have any amendments for these clauses.

Does anyone wish to address this specific division?

Okay.

(Clauses 205 to 208 inclusive agreed to)

It is unanimous.

I will now deal with division 3, which deals with PPP Canada Inc., clauses 209 to 213.

Monsieur Mai would like to speak to this division.