Evidence of meeting #23 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was skills.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

David McGovern  Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy and Research Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Alison Hale  Director, Labour Statistics, Statistics Canada
René Morissette  Assistant Director, Research, Social Analysis Division, Statistics Canada
Amy Huziak  National Representative, Young Workers, Canadian Labour Congress
Marsha Josephs  Director, Government Relations, Canadian Youth Business Foundation
John Atherton  Director General, Employment Programs and Partnerships, Department of Employment and Social Development
Angella MacEwen  Senior Economist, Social and Economic Policy, Canadian Labour Congress
Philippe Massé  Senior Director, Economic Policy Directorate, Department of Employment and Social Development

5:25 p.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Peggy Nash

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dubourg.

Mr. Dubé, the last five minutes go to you.

5:25 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Dubé NDP Chambly—Borduas, QC

Great. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I would like as many of you as possible to answer my question, so I would ask that you leave enough time for everyone to comment. You can take turns, starting with the CLC officials.

The TD Bank Group study we were talking about earlier identifies a challenge for young workers. After a recession, older workers have to re-enter the workforce.

And no doubt that will be the reality for a few more years yet despite the economic recovery, particularly since the age of eligibility for old age security went up. Is that situation expected to create problems in the next 15 to 20 years that may not have been anticipated before these events?

We'll start with you, Ms. Huziak, and then we'll give the rest of the witnesses a chance to answer.

5:25 p.m.

National Representative, Young Workers, Canadian Labour Congress

Amy Huziak

Your question speaks to a very important point. We have framed the discussion in terms of there being a skills gap and of our having programs to address training and retraining opportunities. But one of the things we haven't specifically emphasized yet is that there is also a really big problem of a jobs gap. The most recent number for Ontario, through the Ontario Federation of Labour, is that there are seven people looking for a job for every one job available in Ontario.

It doesn't matter how many times we train and retrain young workers or older workers coming back; if there are no jobs, they aren't going to be working. This is why we'd like to see a very broad emphasis on job creation and not just on training.

5:25 p.m.

Director General, Employment Programs and Partnerships, Department of Employment and Social Development

John Atherton

There has been quite a bit of work and study in the area—and we can certainly provide some references to the committee clerk about it—on whether or not high employment rates of older workers actually result in higher unemployment rates for young people.

There is no empirical evidence of it; in fact, the two move together. A stronger older-worker contingent means that they are consuming and buying and creating the jobs around them that allow young people to also participate. I think you can see the two things moving together, and in this committee I hope you will be able to not see it as a trade-off.

There has been quite a bit of empirical work done on it, but there is no evidence that there is some kind of trade-off whereby you pick one group over the other.

5:25 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Dubé NDP Chambly—Borduas, QC

Does anyone have anything to add? Perhaps the Statistics Canada officials would like to comment?

5:25 p.m.

Assistant Director, Research, Social Analysis Division, Statistics Canada

René Morissette

A number of studies have been done in both Canada and the U.S. on workers who have lost their jobs. And they show that workers who have a lot of seniority when they lose their jobs are hit hard by wage losses, and that is true of Canada, the U.S. and the U.K.

Often, five years after having lost their job, workers who had a lot of seniority have to deal with a 20% loss in wages. And that has very significant financial consequences for them, even in the medium term.

5:30 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Dubé NDP Chambly—Borduas, QC

I have one last question.

My apologies. Please go ahead.

5:30 p.m.

Director, Government Relations, Canadian Youth Business Foundation

Marsha Josephs

I wanted to comment.

5:30 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Dubé NDP Chambly—Borduas, QC

Sure; go ahead.

5:30 p.m.

Director, Government Relations, Canadian Youth Business Foundation

Marsha Josephs

Young entrepreneurs create jobs. We need to encourage more young entrepreneurs to see entrepreneurship as a viable career option. Entrepreneurship needs to be encouraged, celebrated, and supported.

Thank you.

5:30 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Dubé NDP Chambly—Borduas, QC

My question is for the officials from the Department of Employment and Social Development.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but last year, the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities did a report on the Canadian Occupational Projection System, or COPS. It's a tool that focuses on skills shortages and how they are measured.

In its report, the committee indicated that there were flaws in how the system measured data. Could that situation cause problems for your forecasts and the programs you are in the process of setting up?

5:30 p.m.

Senior Director, Economic Policy Directorate, Department of Employment and Social Development

Philippe Massé

Clearly, measuring future shortages is a challenge. The department uses a series of models to predict where things will stand in the various occupations down the road. The idea is to help people who are investing in their skills now.

As far as the flaws go, I cannot comment on them specifically. I do know that the department is constantly making investments to improve the type and quality of data available. That involves investing in data bases and methods for their use.

5:30 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Dubé NDP Chambly—Borduas, QC

Thank you.

5:30 p.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Peggy Nash

Thank you, Mr. Dubé.

I'd like to thank all the witnesses for being here today. Your testimony was very informative.

Thank you to the committee.

This meeting is adjourned.