Thank you.
Evidence of meeting #28 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was work.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #28 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was work.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
4:35 p.m.
Cariboo—Prince George, CPC
Thank you, Mr. Chair and presenters. I appreciate your input today, and it's been interesting.
I want to start off by congratulating the Royal Bank and the restaurant association, the tradespeople, and every employer that's recognized the immense benefit of taking a chance and providing some training to new employees so they're going to be able to do the job better and stay longer. The employees, of course, realize that it's just good for business as well, because if you have good employees who know what they're doing, your company is going to have a whole lot of benefit from your involvement in programs like that. I really applaud any company in Canada that's doing it.
I'm sorry Mr. Brison left, because he and I sat on the finance committee way back in the day.
Oh, there you are.
4:35 p.m.
Voices
Oh,oh!
4:35 p.m.
Cariboo—Prince George, CPC
Gone but forgotten. Where did you go? I was looking over there.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
4:35 p.m.
Cariboo—Prince George, CPC
There you go.
Mr. Brison and I sat on the finance committee some years ago. He's not as old as I am, so he'll probably remember even more easily.
4:35 p.m.
Cariboo—Prince George, CPC
We talked about this same thing. We talked about the German model, as a matter of fact, and how good it was and how the employees were linked to the education program and they were sitting there waiting for graduates to come out of the schools and go into the trade schools and then come into their companies. It was a beautiful program, and we all agreed on it. But, Scott, nothing got done about it. This is 15, 20 years ago. That was one thing we talked about.
We also talked about the guidance counsellors in the schools. I'll tell you a personal story. In the 1980s, my youngest son was in school, about grade 10. He went to a guidance counsellor, that was his big day, and when he came home, I asked him where he was going. He said he didn't know. I asked what they told him. He said to do whatever I wanted to do. This was at a time when you didn't have to be a rocket scientist to see that there was going to be a huge void in the skilled trades sector. It was going to start in about 10 or 15 years, and it did start. But because it seemed back in those days that guidance counsellors were deathly afraid to tell a student that maybe they should consider going into a trade instead of going to university, that was never done.
I believe a lot of students made a wrong decision. They went to university and they had trouble there because they weren't prepared academically for that type of challenge. As a consequence I can tell you, since I've been an MP I've had a lot of students come to me and say they got a university degree and can't get a job. They asked what I was going to do about it. In 21 years I've never ever had a Red Seal certificate holder come into my office and say they're out of a job, never.
I think we have failed our young people in areas like that, in guidance, in connecting employers with the education sector, and it's something we have to do aggressively. I think the job grant program is a good start. It's going to provide incentive to business and schools. The Canada apprentice loan is going to help, but, boy oh boy, we sure have to—I'm going to ask for your comments, I don't want to talk.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Gerald Keddy Conservative South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS
We were wondering who was the witness here.
4:35 p.m.
Cariboo—Prince George, CPC
We have to get government, the education system, and the employers all working together. I think if we can do that—and I know there are different jurisdictions—we're going to go a long way to solving this through the job and employment programs.
Now I've used all the time. But whatever time is left I would like to hear comments.
4:35 p.m.
Senior Advisor, Government Relations and Public Affairs, Building and Construction Trades Department, AFL-CIO
When I went to high school, maybe sooner than some of the other people around here—I guess I can say that without getting things thrown at me—I went to high school in Oakville, southwestern Ontario. There was nothing in the high school in terms of shop class or construction or anything so there was no exposure to it.
We think guidance counsellors should come from industry. We think guidance counsellors potentially shouldn't be solely teachers. They should be linked to the local job market. We think there is perhaps a gap that can be filled there. There's nothing wrong with teachers of course but we think that providing information to students around career options in the local community is not necessarily a vocation for a teacher. We need to get people lined up with jobs in the local marketplace and it's not at the expense of my colleagues beside me. If we had people from the trades actively as guidance counsellors.... How many guidance counsellors are from the trades? I would say none because they are not teachers.
We have to do a better job at this kind of thing. We don't have to reinvent our apprenticeship system in Canada. We have a strong system and we can make it better. There are three or four or five really good things that we can do that we learned on this trip that can be easily done. The Canadian Chamber of Commerce and major employers have to want to do it. Companies have to want to train young people. They have to commit to it. If they don't, nothing will happen because you need a job in order to be an apprentice.
The community colleges aren't here but Algonquin College here in Ottawa received a large sum of money from the Government of Ontario in the $20-million range to build a building trades training centre. They have 150 seats and they get 5,000 applications a year and they're not training to Ontario apprenticeship standards. It is a pre-apprenticeship training program where kids come out of that after a year or two and they still are not registered in an apprenticeship program. It is a pre-apprenticeship “have fun swinging some hammers” course, no offence to those people.
Thank you.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
April 3rd, 2014 / 4:40 p.m.
NDP
Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I found the last few minutes quite informative. We are getting into some fairly interesting information.
Ms. Woloschuk, I was just going to ask you a question about guidance. Mr. Smillie made some interesting comments. It's important to recognize—and I don't disagree with what Mr. Harris said about guidance—our capacity to advise and steer young people toward much more profitable areas. I don't think that people should just consider the economic side to determine what they are interested in. However, it still must factor into it, and people need to be able to provide direction.
What do you think about Mr. Smillie's recommendation? Do you have any recommendations for improving the process and quality of guidance that young people get in school?
4:40 p.m.
President, Canadian Teachers' Federation
Guidance programs have improved significantly in recent years. A number of provincial governments have identified careers, particularly trades, as a priority. I know that, in general, some schools put much more focus on information about trades than they did 10 years ago. It's important that students know about these trades and have the opportunity to take courses in school to explore them.
As for programs of study, it is important to note that the number and variety of courses offered, such as welding, depend on the resources or funding that schools have access to.
Since PISA was started and since we have been focusing on science and literacy in general, school curricula have become narrower. However, the type of courses we just described are not as available as they were before.
There is one last thing I would like to mention. In Germany, students are steered toward certain careers at age 12 or 13. The situation is different in Canada. The provincial and territorial governments have asked us not to steer the students too much, especially at a young age. Students who are 12 and 13 years of age and in Grade 6 or 7 are steered toward a certain trade, when they are really too young to know which career they want to pursue.
It is very important that schools be fully informed. I would also like to point out that guidance counsellors do more than give career advice. The mental health needs of young people is something that schools are now quite aware of. They must have teachers who are trained in this area and can help students, as well as advise them on careers.
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Thank you very much.
How much time do I have left, Mr. Chair?
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
There are so many questions coming up on this issue and I really need to ask them.
You mentioned that there was a lack of resources for certain programs because of the focus on the PISA curriculum. Is that the case for all provinces or is it different from one to the other?
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Which provinces are doing the best when it comes to these professional programs?
