Evidence of meeting #63 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cra.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Roch Huppé  Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Commissioner, Finance and Administration Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Rick Stewart  Assistant Commissioner, Legislative Policy and Regulatory Affairs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Ted Gallivan  Deputy Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Programs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON

But you can't get blood out of a stone, so with bankruptcy and stuff like that....

4:25 p.m.

Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Commissioner, Finance and Administration Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

Roch Huppé

When we proceed with the write-off of certain of these accounts, the accounts are not necessarily washed away. If by any chance there is new information that leads us to believe we're in a position to collect from these accounts that have been written off, we will take those actions.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON

One could have gone bankrupt, become destitute, and later in life maybe had things turn around.

4:25 p.m.

Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Commissioner, Finance and Administration Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

Roch Huppé

If the financial situation changes, we will continue to proceed.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON

So the debt is never really forgiven, is it?

4:25 p.m.

Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Commissioner, Finance and Administration Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

Roch Huppé

No, the debt is never really completely written off.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON

I'm not suggesting that this is the case, but nowadays, when we electronically file our tax returns, you have access to a lot of pertinent information.

Is this a trend? Can we expect to see it leading finally to the IMF participating globally and companies finding that it's going to be increasingly more difficult to hide or shift money around, if that's what they're doing? Is there a trend moving in that direction? Is it something you're collaborating on with various countries?

4:25 p.m.

Deputy Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Programs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

Ted Gallivan

Certainly BEPS, or base erosion and profit shifting, is a G-20/G-8 concern in which Canada is playing a leading role with the OECD and other organizations. People are talking about country-by-country reporting, and we're talking about multilateral frameworks. So there definitely is a global priority around getting a complete picture on multinational entities, if that answers your question.

4:25 p.m.

Assistant Commissioner, Legislative Policy and Regulatory Affairs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

Rick Stewart

Let me just add to that. One part of this exercise or effort is to clarify the rules for international business transaction; that's the BEPS work. The other part of this is an increasing collaboration and the development of a multilateral exchange-of-information arrangement whereby it will be easier to exchange relevant tax information with a broader set of countries in the world, including those jurisdictions that are familiarly considered to be those of concern to individuals.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON

You do not have the reputation of the American tax collectors; however, it is a fearful thing to fall into your hands.

4:30 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Order, please.

December 3rd, 2014 / 4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON

If there is one thing that is really heart-wrenching, it is to have a constituent come in who has issues with Canada Revenue, and when you look over their files, you realize that they are in trouble.

I wonder how this comes to be. You alluded to this earlier, but is there more communication starting to happen—and I'm speaking about businesses—so that they understand early on that these are their obligations, so that they can quickly get to them before they get into too much trouble? Is this something you're working towards? Is it something we can expect to see in the future?

4:30 p.m.

Deputy Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Programs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

Ted Gallivan

Absolutely. I mentioned the increased communication around something like the UE, where we definitely see the value in communicating up front, so people get it right, from the start. I also mentioned the liaison officer initiative, where we've taken 150 auditors and said, no, we don't want you auditing people after the fact, several years down the road when there's a huge bill. We want you going to visit businesses in their place of business, to help give them information and advice, talk to them about common errors before they file their return, so they get it right. We absolutely appreciate the value of early certainty, and are trying to reallocate our resources to make that a greater priority.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON

Finally, somebody mentioned something about compliance and tax cheats. I think anybody who's been in business has had situations where they've used loopholes that are legitimate. Are you giving more information to businesses too, so that they don't fall into traps that cause them grief down the road?

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Just a brief response, please.

4:30 p.m.

Deputy Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Programs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

Ted Gallivan

We call people tax promoters, and they're definitely a priority for us, including criminal investigations.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Okay, thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Van Kesteren.

I want to thank our three officials for being here for this session. I appreciate that.

I think you found there were a lot of questions from members but it was a very informative session, so we appreciate your time very much.

Colleagues, we will suspend for a few minutes, and then we'll go in camera for our prebudget report.

[Proceedings continue in camera]