Evidence of meeting #62 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was lighthouses.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Patricia Kell  Manager, Policy and Government Relations Branch, National Historic Sites Directorate, Parks Canada Agency
Cal Hegge  Assistant Deputy Minister, Human Resources and Corporate Services, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Doug Tapley  Manager, Cabinet Affairs, Parks Canada Agency
David Burden  Director, Real Property, Safety and Security, Divestiture, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

11:50 a.m.

Director, Real Property, Safety and Security, Divestiture, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

David Burden

Actually, over the course of the last number of years there has been a bit of a hodgepodge.

Almost four years ago the department created the organization I lead to try to establish an integrated national approach. What we're doing now is divesting the property and all its assets to a community group. We're doing that at a nominal value. We are ensuring that the heritage character of the light, if there is a heritage value in it, is protected through the FHBRO standards. We do that through the legal transfer documents. As well, prior to the divestiture of any of our properties, we undertake the appropriate legal due diligence and provide full disclosure of all environmental contaminations or whatever at the site and outline a risk mitigation plan for addressing those.

There are some instances where we do have leases. Predominantly we're using leases now because there's a bit of uncertainty, as a result of this bill and other issues, as to what the downstream liabilities will be for subsequent owners of the properties. We don't want to slow the divestiture process down. We want to get these lighthouses in the hands of community groups who want to make alternate use of them. We have a number of leases that are in play until the environment gets clarified a bit. Then we want to move forward as quickly as possible with a complete divestiture of the entire property.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gerald Keddy

Thank you, Mr. Burden.

Thank you, Mr. Cuzner.

Monsieur Asselin.

11:50 a.m.

Bloc

Gérard Asselin Bloc Manicouagan, QC

In the same vein, I would like to ask you a question on divestiture. The Department of Fisheries and Oceans used to have a port divestiture budget and often signed renovation agreements, as well as transfer agreements with businesses and municipalities.

Does the Department of Fisheries and Oceans have a port divestiture program; and, if so, how much of your budget is earmarked for this program?

11:50 a.m.

Director, Real Property, Safety and Security, Divestiture, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

David Burden

My team has an annual budget of around a million dollars for port divestiture.

11:50 a.m.

Bloc

Gérard Asselin Bloc Manicouagan, QC

A million dollars.

11:50 a.m.

Director, Real Property, Safety and Security, Divestiture, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

David Burden

Yes, per year.

11:50 a.m.

Bloc

Gérard Asselin Bloc Manicouagan, QC

You appreciate that a million dollars will not allow you to renovate many lighthouses, given their current state. They have been contaminated by mercury and diesel. A million dollars for port divestiture is so little that it is not even worth talking about it.

My second question is for Parks Canada. The lighthouses on the Mingan archipelago, for example on the île aux Perroquets and Havre-Saint-Pierre, belong to Parks Canada. What responsibility does your agency have for these lighthouses that are on your land?

11:50 a.m.

Manager, Policy and Government Relations Branch, National Historic Sites Directorate, Parks Canada Agency

Patricia Kell

Some of the lighthouses are on Parks Canada land, but they belong to the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. I believe that is the case for the Mingan archipelago. Even though the lighthouses are in the park, they belong to the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

11:50 a.m.

Bloc

Gérard Asselin Bloc Manicouagan, QC

Staff at the Parks Canada office in Havre-Saint-Pierre prepared a fairly lengthy management plan, after having consulted with stakeholders. It was devised under the auspices of Parks Canada. Does Parks Canada plan on keeping these lighthouses? I imagine that it does. If Parks Canada plans on keeping these lighthouses, could you tell me how much money it currently has for their upkeep and acquisition?

11:55 a.m.

Manager, Policy and Government Relations Branch, National Historic Sites Directorate, Parks Canada Agency

Patricia Kell

I am unable to answer your question. For as long as these lighthouses are the property of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, it is responsible for their upkeep. We do not intend to acquire more lighthouses, even though DFO would like to give them to us. I could perhaps elaborate later on.

11:55 a.m.

Bloc

Gérard Asselin Bloc Manicouagan, QC

As these lighthouses are on Parks Canada land, would you be pleased if DFO were to decide to transfer them to you through its transfer program?

11:55 a.m.

Manager, Policy and Government Relations Branch, National Historic Sites Directorate, Parks Canada Agency

Patricia Kell

We would only be interested if...

11:55 a.m.

Bloc

Gérard Asselin Bloc Manicouagan, QC

If you also had the necessary resources.

11:55 a.m.

Manager, Policy and Government Relations Branch, National Historic Sites Directorate, Parks Canada Agency

Patricia Kell

Funding helps, but we should also strive to acquire lighthouses that are in keeping with our objectives, for example, the ecological integrity of a park or the commemorative integrity of a site.

11:55 a.m.

Bloc

Gérard Asselin Bloc Manicouagan, QC

Fine. The management plan that was developed in cooperation with the people of Manicouagan, a riding that primarily lies in the Mingan archipelago, was tabled. We were always told that it was on the minister of Canadian Heritage's desk. Sheila Copps was the Minister at that time. We were waiting for funding to be allocated and a deadline to be set for the restoration of the lighthouses. Sadly, the document has probably been used to decorate the office, although it ought to be put to better use than that.

Are Parks Canada and the Department of Fisheries and Oceans aware of this management plan?

11:55 a.m.

Manager, Policy and Government Relations Branch, National Historic Sites Directorate, Parks Canada Agency

Patricia Kell

Not in any detail, no.

11:55 a.m.

Bloc

Gérard Asselin Bloc Manicouagan, QC

Mr. Chairman, I have a question for you. You told me that a senator was willing to appear before the committee on Thursday. Will the Department of Canadian Heritage be appearing before the committee?

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gerald Keddy

It's my understanding that Heritage Canada will be appearing, but I haven't looked at the witness list. We have to figure out if we're sitting on Thursday--I'm expecting we will be, of course.

11:55 a.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

11:55 a.m.

Bloc

Gérard Asselin Bloc Manicouagan, QC

We have been hearing that for three weeks now.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gerald Keddy

Mr. Calkins.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB

Apparently, Chair, you and I have different expectations.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for coming in today. Of course, being from the constituency of Wetaskiwin, lighthouses are of great interest to me.

I have some questions on national historic sites. I believe you answered this earlier, but I just want confirmation of how many lighthouses are designated as historic sites now.

11:55 a.m.

Manager, Policy and Government Relations Branch, National Historic Sites Directorate, Parks Canada Agency

Patricia Kell

There are 14.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB

I heard the number five.

11:55 a.m.

Manager, Policy and Government Relations Branch, National Historic Sites Directorate, Parks Canada Agency

Patricia Kell

Parks Canada owns five of those.