Evidence of meeting #46 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was prevention.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

David Burden  Acting Regional Director General, Central and Arctic Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Becky Cudmore  Senior Science Advisor, Central and Arctic Region, Great Lakes Laboratory for Fisheries and Aquatics Sciences, Burlington, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Nick Mandrak  Research Scientist, Central and Arctic Region, Great Lakes Laboratory for Fisheries and Aquatics Sciences, Burlington, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

I'll call this meeting to order. I want to welcome our guests back.

Yes, Mr. MacAulay.

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE

Mr. Chair, I would like to bring my motion on the Experimental Lakes Area to the floor before the meeting gets started. Understanding its importance in providing public policy to the government, I would hope that they would see fit to bring it forward and get it dealt with at this time.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

Mr. MacAulay has provided proper notice of his motion to this committee.

I would ask Mr. MacAulay if he wants to move that motion at this time.

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE

Mr. Chair, because the Experimental Lakes Area has been providing public policy-makers in Canada and around the world with exceptional and unique research for over 40 years in areas such as aquaculture and freshwater ecosystems, and given the impending timeline in which the Department of Fisheries and Oceans will decide whether to remediate, shutter, or transfer the ELA to a third party, I move that the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans immediately study the ELA, the research done on site, its impact on public policy, and the potential consequence of closing, remediating, or transferring the ELA to a third party.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

Thank you, Mr. MacAulay.

Go ahead, Mr. Kamp.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Kamp Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC

Following our usual practice, I think we should move in camera for debate on this motion.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

It has been moved that the committee go in camera to debate.

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE

I disagree.

8:55 a.m.

NDP

Robert Chisholm NDP Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Mr. Chair, there is a motion on the floor.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

It has been moved by Mr. Kamp that the committee move in camera for committee business for the discussion of the motion by Mr. MacAulay.

It's a tie. My vote is with the governing party, and therefore, we will move in camera.

(Motion agreed to)

[Proceedings continue in camera]

[Public proceedings resume]

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

I call this meeting back to order.

I'd like to take this opportunity to welcome our witnesses back to our meeting again. We really do appreciate your taking the time to make a presentation to the committee and to answer the questions that committee members have. I know there were some recent studies released, and certainly we look forward to hearing from you on the findings.

Mr. Burden, Mr. Mandrak, and Ms. Cudmore, I'm not sure who is to lead off.

Mr. Burden, the floor is yours. Perhaps you could introduce your associates who are with you today.

9:15 a.m.

David Burden Acting Regional Director General, Central and Arctic Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Ladies and gentlemen, members of the committee, it is a pleasure to be here to address Fisheries and Oceans Canada's mandate regarding our contribution to protecting the Great Lakes against the Asian carp. My name is David Burden and I am Acting Regional Director General, Central and Arctic Region at the Department of Fisheries and Oceans Canada.

With me today are Becky Cudmore and Nick Mandrak. They are the knowledge behind the topic we are going to be discussing today. They will provide an overview of the work they've been doing related to Asian carp in the Great Lakes with our colleagues on this side of the border and south of the border.

Before I ask Becky to provide you with an overview of the binational risk assessment work, I would also like to take a few minutes to provide a bit of context and outline some of the other work we are doing which I think will be of interest to this committee and your study. After that, we will be willing to take any of your questions and to answer them as best we can.

Aquatic invasive species such as Asian carp pose a significant threat to Canada's fisheries, putting at risk regional economies and jobs that rely on commercial fisheries, tourism, and recreation. While there are currently no Asian carp in Canadian waters, Asian carp DNA has been found north of the electrical fish barrier on the Chicago Sanitary and Ship Canal. Another risk is that live Asian carp have been found entering Canada via the U.S.-Canada border crossing to serve the live food trade industry.

In 2010 DFO, in cooperation with U.S. agencies, undertook a binational risk assessment on the two highest priority Asian carp species, those being bighead and silver carp. DFO allocated approximately $415,000 to fund this assessment in order to help guide Canadian and American prevention, monitoring, and control activities throughout the Great Lakes and to identify vulnerable areas.

Back on May 28, 2012, Minister Ashfield, on behalf of the Government of Canada, announced funds totalling $17.5 million over five years to protect the Great Lakes from Asian carp. These funds are allocated to four key activities: prevention, early warning, rapid response, and management and control.

DFO is also currently developing a regulatory proposal that would address the issue of import of live aquatic invasive species such as Asian carp. In June of this year, DFO was invited to join the Asian carp regional coordinating committee, which is responsible for coordinating activities under the U.S. Asian carp control strategy framework across all levels of U.S. government at the state and federal levels. The committee's aim is to prevent environmental and economic damage to the Great Lakes from these species.

Finally, closer to home, we've been working with our colleagues south of the border as well as from Ontario and the aquatic Invasive Species Centre up in Sault Ste. Marie to develop a Canadian Asian carp forum similar to those that have occurred south of the border. This forum will provide basin-wide activities concerning the prevention of Asian carp introduction and establishment in the Great Lakes. It will be held on November 8 at the Palais Royale in Toronto, and will be attended by agencies from both sides of the border, non-government agencies, and the public.

With that context and update information, I will now turn things over to Becky to walk you through the details of the binational risk assessment.

9:20 a.m.

Becky Cudmore Senior Science Advisor, Central and Arctic Region, Great Lakes Laboratory for Fisheries and Aquatics Sciences, Burlington, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Thank you very much.

I do have a deck and if you turn to the second slide, it is a quick overview on risk assessment for aquatic invasive species. The first step is to look at the probability that a species will be introduced, taking into account the likelihood that it will arrive, survive, establish, and spread. The second part of a risk assessment is to determine what the magnitude of the consequences would be if the species was successfully introduced. Combining these two parts gives you the ecological risk of that species to the ecosystem.

Turning to the next slide, the risk assessment for the bighead and silver carp was drafted by experts from DFO, the U.S. Geological Survey, and the Great Lakes Fisheries Commission. This draft was presented at a meeting of invited binational experts and freshwater fish invasive species experts in risk assessment, or experts in invasive species modelling.

The peer review meeting followed a rigorous review process for science advice set by DFO, which follows the science advice for government effectiveness principles. Proceedings and a science advisory report have been completed, which have resulted in strong, transparent, and scientifically defensible products, including an actual risk assessment authored by me, Dr. Mandrak, and our American colleagues.

I will discuss some of the key results for each stage of the risk assessment process.

Two categories of potential entry routes were identified and assessed: physical connections and human-mediated release. The most likely entry point to the Great Lakes is through an existing physical connection with an already invaded water body, specifically the Chicago Area Waterway System, CAWS, into Lake Michigan. I wish to note that the CAWS is a variety of water connections, not just the Chicago Sanitary and Ship Canal. Other physical connections exist but were assessed to be at lower risk. Trade had a greater uncertainty for our assessment, and more information would be required in order to provide an assessment with greater certainty.

We found as a key result for survival that enough food and habitat exists throughout all five of the Great Lakes, especially Lake Erie, for these fish to survive and overwinter. These species are opportunistic feeders. They consume a wide range of food sources, including bottom debris and pseudofeces from zebra mussels in order to survive. Pseudofeces is the biological waste product from zebra mussels.

The key result for establishment is that Asian carp require rivers for spawning, and we found that suitable spawning conditions exist in at least 49 Canadian rivers. Extensive wetlands are available throughout the Great Lakes and these provide an excellent nursery habitat for young Asian carp. We also found that positive population growth would occur in the Great Lakes, and that it would require as few as 10 adult females and a similar number of males to have a greater than 50% chance of annual successful spawning. This requires the fish to be able to find each other in suitable spawning habitats, but because they are drawn to rivers for spawning, we think this would occur.

I will now turn to the key results for spread. Following introduction into a single lake, these species would be expected to spread to the other lakes within 20 years. The spread would be more rapid for lakes Michigan, Huron, and Erie, and potentially Lake Superior. Spread into Lake Ontario would be longer as Lake Erie is extremely suitable and these species would be less inclined to leave that lake.

I will now turn to the key results for consequences. Plankton-eating fish, plankton being the very small plants and animals in the water column, fish such as gizzard shad and buffalos, would be forced to compete for their primary food source. Bighead carp have very specialized adaptations for very effective consumption of plankton. They have a voracious appetite. They consume up to 40% of their body weight daily. This will significantly reduce the number of native fish in the Great Lakes region, and will have an impact on this delicate and important part of the food web. In turn, the reduction of these native fish would reduce the number of predatory fish such as yellow perch and walleye.

Turning to the key results for our overall risk, if no additional action is taken, the overall ecological risk of bighead carp to the Great Lakes is high, especially to the central lakes, those being lakes Huron, Michigan, and Erie. The impacts will increase over time.

The magnitude of impact of bighead carp in the Great Lakes is directly related to their becoming established. Therefore, preventing establishment is critical.

For Canada, where there are no established Asian carp, our focus would be on preventing introduction. This is the main driver of the new Asian carp program that Mr. Burden spoke of.

I would be happy to take any questions.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

Thank you very much.

Leading off today will be Mrs. Davidson.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair, and thanks to each of you for coming back again today. We're trying to wrap up this study and we felt we absolutely needed to discuss the risk assessment again before we were able to do that.

Becky, in closing, you talked about the prevention mode. We know that both of you have referred to the $17.5 million that was announced in May of this year with the prevention, early warning, rapid response, and management and control categories to it. You talked about prevention being extremely important. Where do we go with this prevention? Is prevention the main focus in the $17.5 million in funding?

9:25 a.m.

Senior Science Advisor, Central and Arctic Region, Great Lakes Laboratory for Fisheries and Aquatics Sciences, Burlington, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Becky Cudmore

The main focus of the Asian carp program will be prevention. That is our most effective and efficient use of funds in dealing with any aquatic invasive species, and especially this one, as we don't have them in Canada at this time. We need to focus on preventing their arrival so that we can avoid the subsequent steps of establishment, spread, and impact.

We will be working with the U.S.A. because that is where the invaded water bodies are located. It was very critical for us to be part of their coordinating group so we can have a voice at their table on the activities they are doing to prevent arrival through that particular pathway.

It was really important for us to make sure we understood all the existing pathways throughout the Great Lakes so that we weren't so focused on one that we could have missed others.

By identifying all the pathways, we are able to think about which ones we have control over. We do have control over trade and what should be coming across the border. Understanding better the characteristics of live trade will be another focus of the program. It is illegal to bring them into Ontario and possess them live, but we know people do illegal things and so we will be working with the Canada Border Services Agency and the Province of Ontario to work on that particular pathway.

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

In talking about prevention, you mentioned that the Chicago Area Waterway System is the biggest physical way they are coming in, and the fact that there are two distinct governments and countries. How do we work with the U.S.A.? How can we best support and encourage them to—perhaps it's a physical separation, or something else—but how we do it? What do you think the best answer is there?

9:30 a.m.

Acting Regional Director General, Central and Arctic Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

David Burden

What I have seen in all the time I have been involved in this file is a great deal of cooperation and a very integrated approach. Our participation in the Asian Carp Regional Coordination Committee is a step in that direction. We were always on the periphery of discussions. When John Goss approached us and the minister about having Canadian officials, including officials from Ontario, participate, that was a sign of the degree of cooperation that was needed to go to the next step. The work that Becky and Nick and their colleagues had done on the binational risk assessment went a long way to the Americans saying that there is a lot of good research and work being done up in Canada and that everyone can benefit from that.

The other part of the issue is that there's a lot of discussion about the Chicago Area Waterway System, but we have to be very cognizant of the fact that that's not the only way these invasive species can get in. You can do physical separation, but Chicago in and of itself was built on a very marshy area. There are significant other ways, through floods for example, that these invasive species would get in even if a physical separation is done. The cost of that, coupled with the impacts on transportation and other parts of the economy, would be similar to our saying that maybe we should close down the St. Lawrence Seaway system to stop sea lamprey or something like that. It's already there, so where do we go?

The key to this is what Becky alluded to regarding the prevention: education and outreach. We have to get all the information out. This public forum in November that we spoke about will be an opportunity for us to have a very good discussion about that in Canada with folks who are directly impacted because they live along the Great Lakes.

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

When you were here the last time, Dave, you talked about physical separation and the fact that it wouldn't make much difference if we were to have one of these 100-year floods. With the way our weather patterns are going these days, it seems that a 100-year flood might be happening more frequently than that. Can we address that issue in some way? Is that something your group will be talking about?

9:30 a.m.

Acting Regional Director General, Central and Arctic Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

David Burden

I think all of the work we are doing and the discussions that we've had with our American, provincial, and state colleagues are along the lines of using what we know, using what we're seeing from climate change, to advance the work we have. It's one of these things that is really difficult to address until you start seeing them happen.

From our perspective, that's why we wanted to look at and be able to use the information from the binational risk assessment and couple it with the work the Ontario government has been doing. I think folks from the Ministry of Natural Resources were here to talk about their rapid response, so if we did find live Asian carp in the Great Lakes, we would be able to marshal everybody's resources to address that in a rapid and coordinated effort to eliminate the risk.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

Is detection part of this overall process? Is some of the $17.5 million being used for detection as well? If so, how is that done?

9:35 a.m.

Senior Science Advisor, Central and Arctic Region, Great Lakes Laboratory for Fisheries and Aquatics Sciences, Burlington, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Becky Cudmore

Yes, absolutely. Early detection is part of prevention as well, because the sooner we can locate a species, the more ability we will have to remove it from the system and basically restart the invasion process. Early detection or early warning surveillance is definitely going to be a part of this prevention-based program.

We'll be using traditional methods as well as new genetic techniques that are emerging and growing. Conducting research on these techniques is going to help feed into that as well.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

Thank you very much, each of you, for the work you're doing on this.

9:35 a.m.

Senior Science Advisor, Central and Arctic Region, Great Lakes Laboratory for Fisheries and Aquatics Sciences, Burlington, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Becky Cudmore

Thank you.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

Thank you, Mrs. Davidson.

Mr. Chisholm.