Fisheries Committee on March 31st, 2014

[Kevin Stringer]

There were indeed reductions associated with the strategic operations and review process. The legislation changed, the focus is on serious harm. We have consolidated the office from a large number of offices, and done some economies of scale to ensure that we have sufficient people in the offices we have to do the work we have to do.

While those reductions were being made, the government has also done the investments of the $10 million a year that the minister and DFO spoke to with respect to the recreational fisheries partnership program. In terms of the overall investment in fisheries protection, yes, there is a reduction in the staff who were reviewing projects. There are processes, consolidation, etc., to address that, but there's also an increase in the recreational fisheries partnership program that helps to offset that.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

How many DFO scientists have been fired or relieved of duty in the last two years? Can you tell me that, Minister?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

In the last two years, I'm not 100% sure, but I know that right now we have about 1,500 people working in that section in our department, doing all kinds of good science work. Our science budget has remained fairly constant over the last number of years. What we've done is ensure that we focus on our science priorities and that we get our priorities completed.

If I may, I'd like to share some examples, because DFO science does such good work, and I want the committee to be aware of some of the work that is being done right now.

We're working to examine how cold ocean conditions impact snow crab development off Newfoundland and Labrador in the southern Gulf of St. Lawrence and in the eastern Bering Sea.

We also have a multi-year project whereby we're identifying and quantifying a suite of microbes that affect B.C. salmon and their effect in the interplay between wild and cultured salmon.

Our scientists are also, on the south coast of Newfoundland and Labrador, working with the local fishermen's union in an aquaculture company to determine whether there are any changes to the benthic bottom environment as a result of establishing an aquaculture farm site.

We are also doing science to inform hydro-electric development; we're doing science on the narwhal summering aggregation; we're doing science, which we talked about, on the Asian carp; we're also doing science on the behaviour of oil spills in the marine environment.

We're also doing science, with small craft harbours on the northeast coast of Newfoundland and Labrador on meeting the challenge of climate change. What they're doing is exploring the potential use of floating breakwaters as a cost-effective option for minimizing the damage that could happen from severe winter storms.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thanks, Minister.

Mr. MacAulay, thank you. Your time is up.

Mr. Weston.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Minister, on a day when British Columbia's premier is here in Ottawa to shrink the distance you've spoken about in relation to your many visits to British Columbia, you've told us about your observations about the passion and commitment of the communities. As a British Columbian, I think it's great to hear. I know many people who are part of that passion and commitment. We thank you for your understanding.

One of the things the government has done in response to that is extend the amount of proceeds from the salmon conservation stamp that will go to the Pacific Salmon Foundation.

Minister, would you like to expand on that a little bit?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

What has happened in the past is that the Pacific salmon stamp was worth, I believe, six dollars. One dollar would go back the Pacific Salmon Foundation for habitat enhancement projects, which they do so very well. The industry, with which we have worked on this, asked on several occasions that the entire stamp value be returned to the Pacific Salmon Foundation for direct investment in the salmon industry in British Columbia.

This past year our government agreed with that, and we're now returning all of the proceeds of the Pacific salmon stamp to the foundation. This provides an increment of more than $1 million to the Pacific Salmon Foundation that they weren't receiving before.

I have to point out that the Pacific Salmon Foundation prides itself on leveraging even more money to invest in the salmon industry with that. They leverage anywhere from $7 to $10 for every $1 invested. That is a significant amount of money, which translates into a $10-million investment in Pacific salmon.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Minister, you've already spoken about the recreational habitat partnership program. Do you foresee some leveraging through volunteers in the same way as you've seen it through the Pacific Salmon Foundation?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

We do for sure. It is necessary and mandatory that there be a partnership with the recreational fisheries partnership program. That as well will leverage a huge investment in Pacific salmon. There has been a great uptake in British Columbia in this recreational fisheries partnership program; there is in this upcoming round, as there was in the last round. This is leveraging a lot more money from private sources and other government sources.

What it does as well is provide encouragement to the volunteers who work so hard to make these projects come to fruition. If we can provide some funding that helps them get these projects completed.... It's absolutely amazing what can be done.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Minister, consistent with the things you're talking about—you mentioned earlier that you've seen a direct result between the efforts of these volunteer groups and the health of the salmon—there is a salmonid enhancement program, an excellent way that the government supports our iconic fish in B.C.

One portion of that program that has caught my eye is the Stream to Sea education program. It's designed to encourage youth to be better aquatic stewards. I recall that you visited the North Vancouver Outdoor School, where you saw youth involved as stewards.

Do you want to comment on this salmonid enhancement program and in particular on the Stream to Sea education program?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

This is a very important program for the youth in British Columbia. There are about 1,800 schools with incubators in the classrooms in 50 school districts in B.C. and Yukon. We reach about 8,000 students per year. The students often take field trips to release fish that they've raised in the classroom, so it's a real hands-on experience. They interact with other public involvement programs and with NGOs and community groups of which they may, at some point in time, become members as they grow up.

It's exposing the children to not just the life cycle of the salmon but also all the volunteer organizations that make it happen and make it a success.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

I think you've become a real minister of the people when it comes to salmon.

Do you have any words for those youth, in terms of the commitment you're talking about today, on how they should become more involved in becoming good salmon stewards?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

I think that through governments working together with the NGOs and providing the materials and things that are needed in the classroom to allow the children to learn, we are doing a good job of providing the education for children.

But they don't just get it from there. I know that when they go home they also hear from their parents and from their friends how important salmon is to British Columbia. I think it's really instilled into them, and there is such a sense of accomplishment for them that this will continue.

I belive that children, being children, will want to do what their friends are doing. So they will have role models among themselves. It's really very impressive to see the interest they take in this program.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Let me just close by saying that the children of B.C. and all of the people who support salmon and salmon habitat welcome you back as soon as you can get to B.C.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you.

Mr. Leef. You have three and a half minutes left.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's great to see you before the committee, Minister.

We talked a little bit about small craft harbours. Of course, they're of significant importance to our fishermen, and keeping them in great repair is no easy task, given that they're spread all across the country—hundreds of them, in fact. Often they're in remote locations.

Can you explain how the additional $40 million will accelerate their maintenance and, if you could, touch on some of the locations where the government's investments are among small craft harbours so that Canadians get a sense of where these investments are spread out across the country?

But specifically, how will that additional $40 million accelerate their maintenance?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Small craft harbours are certainly spread right across the country. They are spread from the north right to the coast of Newfoundland, right to the coast of British Columbia, and all throughout.

Of course, we've established a new small craft harbour at Pangnirtung in Nunavut. It is the first small craft harbour for the territory. It is certainly much appreciated in that community and very much needed as we start to anticipate more fisheries in the north at some point in the future.

The small craft harbours are spread right across the country, and there are varying degrees of needs. The first thing we have to take into account and consider is the health and safety of the users of a harbour. We have to address those issues first, and there are plenty of them. You can imagine that harbours that are pounded by raging waters and high tides take quite a beating, and they're very expensive to maintain.

That's how we decide how that funding will be spent. We have to consider health and safety first.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

I appreciate that.

So we have the investment, $20 million each year over two years.

Given some of the challenges you've articulated—and obviously it's a sensible approach, making sure that user safety and the development considerations are first and foremost—how confident are you that additional money will be spent on deserving projects and not returned back into the fiscal framework?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

I'm very confident of that, I can tell you.

There is never enough money, of course. Small craft harbours certainly have lots of needs. But this will allow us to accelerate some of the projects we have been trying to complete.

As I said, health and safety are first, but we will have absolutely no problem spending the budget and the additional $20 million, as well.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

Thank you for that.

I see in the graph charts we have before us there's a breakdown of where the expenditures are for compliance and enforcement, and fisheries protection. These two are separate categories in the graph charts we have under strategic outcome and program. Collectively they make up about 75% of that section of the budget, which I think is an excellent allocation to protection.

You touched on it, though, Minister, you directly dealt with this. And Mr. Gillis talked about it in his presentation. I could sense it in yours, when you were talking to us about the pride you have in DFO science work. Mr. Gillis talked about it in respect to the Asian carp initiative.

Could you touch on how important the work that DFO science does is, what it contributes to the management aspect, how they work together—as Mr. Gillis touched on—and how the science work supports the critical work of compliance, and enforcement, and fisheries protection?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

As you know, science is the basis for management decisions. It's our responsibility to ensure we have healthy fish stocks. Science forms that basis and allows us to go forward with setting total allowable catches. Then we have conservation enforcement people who come in and enforce those total allowable catches. One informs the other, but it's all very important in the big picture of having a sustainable fishery.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Minister, on behalf of the committee, I want to thank you very much for being here with us today. We certainly do appreciate your time and your taking the time to answer committee members' questions. Thank you once again.

We'll take a brief recess while the minister leaves and officials re-situate themselves.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

We're ready to begin. We're going to lead off with Mr. Chisholm in a five-minute round.

Mr. Chisholm.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Gentlemen, it's good to see you again and have you here before the committee. We can explore a few issues that are hanging out there.

I wanted to start with the decision around the reopening strategy for the three major herring stock areas off British Columbia: the west coast of Vancouver Island, the central coast, and Haida Gwaii. I raise it because it appears, according to the memorandum for the minister dated December 9, that the minister went against the advice of officials. It's having particularly interesting consequences, given the fact that the Nuu-chah-nulth have successfully argued for an injunction on the west coast of Vancouver Island and now the central coast first nations are threatening to blockade or otherwise disrupt the commercial herring fishery in the central coast.

I wonder if you could give us some explanation of why this decision was made. I'd ask the minister, of course, but we had her for only a short period of time. There are important consequences in terms of relations with the first nations and the disruption in relations between the commercial fishery and the first nations. So I wonder if you could give me an answer on that one, please.

[Matthew King, Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

I'd like to begin, Mr. Chair, and I'll ask Kevin to weigh in. You'll understand that it's always a little difficult for a deputy or for an assistant deputy to talk in public about advice given to a minister, because traditionally that remains a private affair. But in this case, as we all know, the advice memo was part of an affidavit, and part of it is public. In recognition, of course, that it is before the courts, we have to be careful about how we characterize this, but there are a couple of points that I really would like to make. I think it will help the public debate, and they haven't come up much in the public commentary around this issue.

We offered the minister two options—which is our role in the process—concerning the 2014 herring. I just want to start out by saying that both options—and this is a point that was really unclear—were based on the notion that on the basis of the 2013 assessment in the three fishing areas that you've referenced, the cut-off, which is the management strategy we use for the Pacific herring fishery.... The system proved that the spawning biomass was significantly above the cut-off. That's the first point.

The second point is that—as we always do—these options were also discussed with industry, with first nations, with other stakeholders in the course of our deliberations.

The first option would have seen a commercial harvest take place this year, but at a 10% harvesting rate—that is to say 10% of the estimated biomass. That was the first option.

The second option, which was ultimately the option that the department recommended, would not have seen a commercial fishery this year, but it would have included time for the department to continue on initiatives like the Pacific herring licence fee reform; it would have let us advance work under the sustainable fisheries framework to look at a new management regime for Pacific herring, which we've already begun to talk to industry about; and finally, we thought it would have let us continue on with some of the science work.

I'll just finish on this very—