Evidence of meeting #25 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was certification.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Kevin Stringer  Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Nadia Bouffard  Director General, External Relations, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Eric Gilbert  Director General, Aquaculture Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

I call this meeting to order.

Before we get started, Monsieur Lapointe, would you like to have the floor?

May 26th, 2014 / 3:30 p.m.

NDP

François Lapointe NDP Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to direct the attention of the committee to the following motion:

That the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans hold a meeting, before the summer adjournment, to address mounting public and scientific concerns over the immediate threat posed by seismic exploratory work, geotechnical drilling and other exploratory work to be conducted within the marine environment to species listed under the Species at Risk Act and other vulnerable species in the Gros-Cacouna region of the St. Lawrence River; that Department of Fisheries and Oceans officials be invited to that meeting to provide the committee with a complete list of the conditions the Department established for this work, along with the scientific basis upon which these conditions are based, and to respond to questions in this regard, and clarify which activities, if any, would have been subject to a federal and environmental assessment under the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act prior to its repeal; and that the committee report its conclusions and its recommendations to the House of Commons.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

Thank you, Monsieur Lapointe. A notice of motion has been provided.

Mr. Stringer, I'd like to welcome you and your colleagues to the committee today. I know you're no stranger to these committee meetings, so I'll ask you to please proceed with your presentation.

3:30 p.m.

Kevin Stringer Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Thank you very much for having us here today to talk about eco-certification.

My name is Kevin Stringer, I'm the assistant deputy minister for ecosystems and fisheries management. On my left is Eric Gilbert, director general for aquaculture management. On my right is Nadia Bouffard, director general for external relations. On her right is Jean Landry, acting director general for ecosystems and oceans science. We're very pleased to be here today to speak to you and to hear your questions about the timely topic of eco-certification of wild-capture and aquaculture fisheries. I have a few opening remarks and then we'll all be happy to take questions and comments, etc.

To give you a bit of background, Canada first witnessed this trend to eco-certification in the forestry sector in the early 1990s when markets, primarily in Europe, began demanding that forest products they purchased come from forestry operations that were certified as sustainable by third parties.

Ecocertification organizations targeting fisheries, first started in Europe, appeared in the late 1990s. As in forestry, European retailers and buyers were first to signal their preference to purchase products from certified fisheries. Thus the first Canadian fisheries to seek ecocertification were those with significant exports to Europe—shrimp and Pacific salmon.

The first Canadian fishery certified was a northern prawn trawl fishery in 2008. Since then, the number of Canadian fisheries that have received eco-certification from the Marine Stewardship Council—established in 1997, it's the global leader in fishery certification—has grown to 24. Twenty-four Canadian fisheries are certified, which places Canada near the top in the number of certified fisheries and represents about 50% of the landings of commercial fisheries in Canada. Another eight Canadian fisheries, including inshore lobster, are under assessment now.

Not all markets or buyers within those markets demand products from eco-certified fisheries. Outside of North America and Europe, the demand is weakest but is showing some growth. Seeking fishery certification is a voluntary market-driven business decision. Once a fishery decides to pursue certification, it enters into a contract with a third party organization approved to conduct the assessment against the independent certification standard of the certifying organization.

During the assessment of a fishery, the role of Fisheries and Oceans Canada is an enabling one. DFO provides the management information and the science data that's needed to meet the information requirements of the fishery assessment. When a fishery is certified, DFO works with it to make any improvements identified as a condition of the assessment of that fishery. No fishery in the world has received MSC certification without some conditions to undertake improvements. The central aim of eco-certification organizations, they say, is to make use of the market to drive improvements in the sustainability of fisheries.

As the results to date have shown, Canada's fishery management system including its stock assessment program, science-based decision making, new sustainable fishery policies and management plans and tools have placed Canadian fisheries on a solid footing to achieve ecocertification.

Ecocertification has put pressure on fisheries and on DFO to meet demands for improvements but for the most part these have been consistent with DFO's own direction on sustainability.

While the Marine Stewardship Council standard has been the leading fishery certification standard for more than 10 years, demanded by more retailers and buyers than any other in the world, other organizations also now have a growing influence. The responsible fisheries certification program, which has been adopted by the Alaska Seafood Marketing Council and Iceland, is a third party certification model that's starting to gain some recognition in European markets.

Other organizations are using different methods to try to encourage improvements in fisheries through campaigns to influence the seafood buying decisions of consumers, restaurants, retailers and others. The Monterey Bay Sea Aquarium (U.S.) Seafood Watch Program assesses and rates fisheries and aquaculture in North America and elsewhere and publishes its recommendations on fish species to buy or avoid.

It's important to note that certification for aquaculture is different. For aquaculture, the unit of certification is the individual operator, and the elements being certified may be more wide-ranging. Aquaculture certification encompasses food safety, animal welfare, and socio-economic aspects, in addition to environmental issues. In addition, fishing companies can combine resources to pay certification costs, whereas aquaculture producers must pay individually for certification of each farm site, hatchery, feed mill, or processing plant.

Among the different groups, and there are many of them, the Global Aquaculture Alliance's best aquaculture practices standard has had the most uptake, especially among salmon farmers. All Atlantic salmon farmers in B.C. and several in New Brunswick are certified under that program. This standard was developed by a committee that included industry representatives as well as environmental groups such as the Monterey Bay Aquarium and the Marine Conservation Society.

With aquaculture's standards now fully developed, Fisheries and Oceans Canada continues to track the companies that are moving into or adding to their certifications. The latest information indicates that the majority of aquaculture production in Canada is certified to one or more internationally recognized programs.

All salmon farms are certified, as is the entire mussel industry in Newfoundland and Labrador and most of Ontario's rainbow trout production. There are 22 companies in Canada that have achieved organic certification.

In sum, the market demand for proof of the sustainability of products from wild capture and from aquaculture facilities, primarily through eco-certification, has been with us for the last decade and has continued to grow. Eco-certification, many believe, is here to stay. It has become, many people in industry believe, a cost of doing business for many fisheries and aquaculture operations and has become increasingly important for market access.

We'd be happy to answer any questions. We are at your disposal.

Thanks very much.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

Thanks very much, Mr. Stringer.

We're going to start off with a 10-minute round with Mr. Chisholm.

3:40 p.m.

NDP

Robert Chisholm NDP Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Thank you very much, Mr. Stringer and your colleagues, for speaking with us today.

I'm curious about the eco-certification of seafood products, and in particular the role of government. It appears that the Government of Canada was involved in the establishment of the FAO guidelines, but then backed off or didn't step forward in taking any direct role in our own industry. I'm trying to understand what that means.

You said the Department of Fisheries shares its research and science with these companies or with the industries. I'm trying to clarify the role of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. In that respect does this also include the small-scale fisheries and some of the work that's been done? The Chedabucto Bay shrimp fishery and the Off the Hook line in Nova Scotia are examples. Could you explain to me why the Government of Canada decided to respond the way it has to help establish international guidelines but then backed off? What role does it play in this business?

3:40 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Kevin Stringer

Thanks for the question. I'll start, and then I'll ask Nadia to add to my comments.

First of all, you're absolutely right in terms of FAO guidelines being the core of this and DFO or the Government of Canada being involved in establishing the guidelines. Guidelines are established from time to time. There are the responsible fisheries guidelines, conduct of fisheries, eco-labelling guidelines, and other guidelines.

With respect to deciding to go for eco-certification, it really is a business decision of the fishery. As we say, about 50% of the catch is now eco-certified. DFO's involvement and the Government of Canada's involvement generally, but certainly DFO's..... There are three areas that I'd speak to.

One is part of the eco-certification process. When MSC or another certifier is taking a fishery through the process, a third party group is putting together an assessment team that's putting together a set of questions. There are 31 sets of questions or sets of issues that they're looking at. Many of them require DFO to be engaged and answer questions, provide information. We're providing stock assessment information, monitoring information, so we're virtually always involved in the process, but as an expert, as someone who's answering questions about the management system, etc.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Robert Chisholm NDP Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Are you paid for that? Are your services—

3:45 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Kevin Stringer

No. It's information that we generally have.

Two, once there is a certification, it's almost always—and I believe it is in fact always—with conditions. When you're certified, they say the condition is they want better information on bycatch, or they want the PA, precautionary approach, framework to be clearer in this area, and that inevitably involves DFO. We work with the fishery organization to enable it to keep that certification.

Three, we manage our fisheries based on the same guidelines, those FAO guidelines. We have a sustainable fisheries framework, which has a decision-making framework based on the precautionary approach. We have a national bycatch policy. We have a sensitive areas policy. We have a number of policies largely based on those same FAO guidelines. We have that information and we're all working with the same set of objectives that are established in the FAO guidelines.

We're not the ones who are pushing for certification or sponsoring certification, but we are supporting it when a fishery is seeking certification.

Nadia, do you want to add to that?

3:45 p.m.

Nadia Bouffard Director General, External Relations, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

I'll go back to the first part of the question in terms of the history. When this movement started, not unlike what happened in the forestry sector, really it was markets and consumers. Mostly it was markets around the world requiring some sort of demonstration that the products that people were buying were coming from fisheries that were sustainably managed. They literally wouldn't take our word for it. We had in the past signed letters for buyers indicating that we felt the fishery was properly managed, sustainably managed. Markets actually demanded more proof, more evidence, in that respect.

Through these pressures, governments got together at the FAO and developed what we call the FAO guidelines on eco-labelling. Part of those guidelines actually insist that eco-certification regimes are independent and third party from industry, from government, from ENGOs, very independent from all of that, to provide credible independent assessment of management regimes and science regimes in support of sustainable fisheries.

I think that explains, in part, DFO's stance with respect to eco-certification regimes. They are third party, independent evaluations demanded by markets. Some markets don't care. Some markets will take information provided by governments. DFO has also played that role in providing information. You'll notice from DFO's website that there are a lot of layman-terms attempts to explain how we manage our fisheries and the basis of our fisheries management decisions.

It's the same thing on the aquaculture front, where we have a lot of information aimed at targeted buyers to explain how we do things. For some markets that works, but for other markets it's not enough.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Robert Chisholm NDP Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Ryan.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Ryan Cleary NDP St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

Thank you.

How many of these 24 Canadian fisheries that have been certified are on the east coast?

3:45 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Kevin Stringer

I'll get you the specific answer in a moment, but the answer, I think, is most of them.

Am I right?

3:45 p.m.

Director General, External Relations, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Nadia Bouffard

I think so.

3:45 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Kevin Stringer

More than 50%—

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Ryan Cleary NDP St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

Is it shellfish? Is it groundfish?

3:45 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Kevin Stringer

It's all of them, a mixture: many of the shrimp fisheries, a couple of the crab fisheries, some of the groundfish fisheries—

3:45 p.m.

Director General, External Relations, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

3:45 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Kevin Stringer

—and scallops. The lobster fisheries are currently in assessment, and don't have it yet; one does have it.

3:50 p.m.

Director General, External Relations, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Nadia Bouffard

There's swordfish, flounder—

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Ryan Cleary NDP St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

Maybe you can provide the full list.

3:50 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Kevin Stringer

We can get you the list, certainly.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Ryan Cleary NDP St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

This is more of a statement than a question, but in terms of eco-certification and the criteria for having something certified, do they take into account the state of the fisheries management or the state of the fisheries science? If so, I would ask, how do we get anything certified? But that's just me. Being from Newfoundland, where most of the commercial fisheries have been decimated, again, that's just me.

The FFAW, the Fish, Food, and Allied Workers union in Newfoundland and Labrador, had an event last weekend in St. John's where they announced a program called trace your plate. It literally traces where the fish on your dinner plate comes from and who caught it. They even put the skipper's name on it.

What's the difference between eco-certification and a program such as trace your plate? Are they one and the same?

3:50 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Kevin Stringer

You have asked two things. I'll start with the first one, and then I'll ask Nadia to answer the second one.

In terms of the tests, there are really three sets of tests. Test number one is the health of and the management of the target stock. What is the state of that stock, whether it's flounder, shrimp, or whatever, in terms of stock status, reference points, recovery, rebuilding? Is there a harvest strategy, etc.?

The second set of tests is around the fishery's impact on the ecosystems. What kind of bycatch is there? What kind of impact is there on habitat? What kind of impact is there potentially on endangered species? It's those types of things: the impact of this fishery on other fisheries and other things.

The third one is the overall governance and management system of whoever's managing that fishery. It's looking at the legal and customary framework and long-term objectives. Are there integrated fisheries management plans, or are there consultative processes in the fisheries management system itself?

With respect to the distinction between eco-certification and traceability, I'll ask Nadia to jump in on that one.

3:50 p.m.

Director General, External Relations, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Nadia Bouffard

As Kevin pointed out, certification is to provide some evidence of the sustainability of whatever is being certified, in this case, seafood. Tracing is to actually trace the provenance of where that seafood comes from. There's a connection between the two. If your certification involves some sort of label that you want to put on your package, then you need to be able to demonstrate, when you're selling that product with that label, that the product actually comes from the fishery that's been certified. A system needs to be put in place to track it from its origin all the way to the plate.

The work that the FFAW has done in terms of tracing fish is slightly different. The objectives are different because you can track and trace fish for other purposes. Certainly people here will know about tracking and tracing for purposes of seafood safety, which is very important, but also for demonstrating the traditional source, particularly in the context of the FFAW. Also, other inshore harvesters around the country have wanted and have marketed the notion of fish and seafood coming from small inshore coastal fisheries, and their traditional ways. They've attached some sort of marketing and market-access benefits to tracing the fish all the way to the boat and to the captain of the boat.