Evidence of meeting #30 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was consular.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
So we now know the timelines. The government made the request, found out on July 15.
The second is that on July 22 Mr. Andrew Jenkins, intelligence officer with the Canada Border Services Agency, physically attended the ATS office in Canada and positively identified who you were, confirmed who you were, corroborated who you were.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
So those are two government agencies, Immigration and Canada Border Services, that came together and validated the things you said, said your story matched, even though it took several weeks; yet on July 24, 2009, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, presumably referring to you specifically, said, “The individual has to be straightforward, has to let us know whether or not she is a Canadian citizen. She's saying so, but there is no tangible proof to the effect.”
Ms. Mohamud, I'm not sure if even I could have satisfied that request. If you had the Canadian departments and various agencies speaking with each other, confirming who you were, why do you think Mr. Cannon made those remarks?
5 p.m.
Liberal
Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
Yes. We'd like to know that too, Ms. Mohamud, and that's why we're asking why the minister has failed to show up here. In 2006, when they had a problem in Lebanon, we at least had the Minister of Foreign Affairs come. Now, I understand the minister is a busy man, but considering the fact that you'd been literally left to fend for yourself, with no help of your own, notwithstanding the fact that they had all the information, the minister still continues to make that statement.
Have you ever received an apology for that statement from the minister or from the Prime Minister, who alleges that he knew about this case only a week or two ago?
5 p.m.
Liberal
Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
Do you believe you're entitled to one, Ms. Mohamud? Do you believe you're entitled to an apology, given what has happened?
5 p.m.
Liberal
Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
Then I have one simple comment, and perhaps a question.
Ms. Mohamud, when you were in Nairobi and the officials refused to accept who you were, were you immediately put into detention and left in detention after the refusal to have you enter the airline, and were you asked to somehow proffer any money in order to put this matter aside?
5:05 p.m.
Falconer Charney LLP, As an Individual
To be fair to Ms. Mohamud, the facts are set out in her statement. What the facts set out is that she was told by KLM officials that her lips looked different, and she felt she was in essence being approached for a bribe. The facts don't go beyond that; I just want to be clear. It was her feeling that that was the idea.
She went to the Canadian High Commission for help in circumstances where they made her miss her flight. But no Canadian official came to see her until the next day, when they told her they didn't believe her and then left her for four days.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Very quickly, perhaps you could summarize your points, as your time is ending.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Madam Mohamud, do you believe that Canadian officials contributed to your three months being there, and the fact that the minister appears not to have been aware of the information, or knew the information and, of course, did not respond positively about your identification? Do you believe that's the reason you spent so much time in prison away from your country?
5:05 p.m.
Bloc
Francine Lalonde Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
Ms. Mohamud, your case is extremely disturbing, but you will understand that I'm going to use what little time I am allotted to talk about Nathalie Morin and her three children.
Johanne, I know you well. Together we've been trying for more than a year—and you've been trying for longer than that—to convince the Canadian government to do what it takes to bring Nathalie and her three children back here. I want to emphasize that the situation in which Nathalie finds herself is exceptional. A man probably could not wind up this kind of situation. Nathalie is a woman who's being subjugated. She is not subjugated as a woman, but because she is being confined, malnourished, poorly cared for and often poorly housed. She was forced to have her last two children because she was not allowed to have any contraception. She is only rarely able to communicate with the outside. She can do it when she temporarily steals her husband's telephone. She is living in extremely cruel isolation alone with her three children, who are not receiving the education to which they are entitled so that they can have a future.
So Johanne, I am outlining what has been lacking to date. Canada says it wants to offer Nathalie diplomatic protection. It should take up her case, and not by saying she is overstating it and so on, and it should negotiate with Saudi Arabia for her return with her three children. Is that in fact what you want? Could you give us more details, please?
5:05 p.m.
As an Individual
That's exactly what I want and what I'm seeking. To date, I believe the Canadian government or the embassy there has spent a lot of time explaining itself or trying to convince us that it didn't need to help Nathalie because she wasn't that badly off. However, I looked at the case notes, which contain nearly 2,000 pages. Even in those notes, you can see the contradictions. The embassy is entirely aware of the fact that Nathalie is locked up without a key and that she has access to a telephone only when her spouse allows her to do so. He dials the number, holds the device to her ear and tells her to speak.
Last weekend, I needed the telephone number of a person responsible for human rights over there. I asked Nathalie to give it to me because I thought I had lost it. Nathalie told me she didn't know it. She told me that when Saeed handed her the telephone, it was he who dialed the number. So even if she has access to the telephone, she can't reach those people. So I'm asking the Canadian government to take a position in favour of Nathalie and to accept the fact that she is in this situation. She is a hostage.
Two weeks after she arrived there, Saeed Al-Shahrani warned her that, if she tried to leave Saudi Arabia, she would have to find someone to get him out as well. Obviously, to increase the pressure on Nathalie and me, he had children with Nathalie by having sexual relations with her against her will. At first, it might have been a little less violent, but now it's increasingly violent. Nathalie is tied up during sexual relations. That's what I call violent relations imposed on a non-consenting person.
5:10 p.m.
Bloc
Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
What conditions are the children living in over there?
5:10 p.m.
As an Individual
Nathalie has three children. I'm their grandmother, not a doctor, but I would say that Samir, the eldest, is the one most affected. Samir is seven years old. He doesn't speak well in French, English or Arabic. He understands a bit of everything, but he doesn't speak a lot. He doesn't go to school. Theoretically, he should be going into grade 2. His father hasn't registered him for school this fall. In the past, he said Samir was too stupid to go to school. So he didn't send him. Last year, after I exercised some pressure, the Saudi government paid kindergarten costs for Samir. Now he has come out of kindergarten. This year, the Saudi government doesn't want to pay for Samir. They rarely pay pay for children. There's no room in the public school. School isn't mandatory over there, and it's the father who decides.
5:10 p.m.
Bloc
5:10 p.m.
As an Individual
Yes, definitely. Abdullah is regularly whipped by his father, for example, when he doesn't listen to instructions about electrical outlets. The father burns them with a candle and bites them. Samir has a scar on one arm and a number that are a result of bites by his father. I have pictures that Nathalie was able to send me. When Samir doesn't listen, his father takes him by the neck and smothers him until he is out of breath. He stops when his son can't breathe.
5:10 p.m.
Bloc
Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Is there a doctor on site who can attest to this abuse?
5:10 p.m.
As an Individual
I already have a medical certificate. I handed it over to Foreign Affairs on March 12. That medical certificate dated back to January. I believe it was the 6th or 9th. There was just one visit. Samir had an intestinal problem. The fear was that sexual abuse was involved. The physician said there were no obvious signs of sexual abuse, to the extent that his sphincters were normal, but that Samir had a scar around the anus. Consequently, he could not say with any certainty that there had not been any sexual abuse in the past. The physician recommended psychological counselling, but that did not take place.
The physician also mentioned that, in a physical examination, when he wanted to examine the child, he became abnormally aggressive. He also noted that Samir was suffering from encopresis. I don't know why, but he retains his stools until they come out on their own. That's not practical at all in public. The problem requires psychological counselling.