Evidence of meeting #18 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ukraine.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
March 26th, 2014 / 5:25 p.m.
Liberal
Marc Garneau Liberal Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC
Of course, the success and the future of Ukraine will depend on putting in place a government that eventually will be elected, going beyond just seeing the president elected.
One hears occasionally—and I'm not sure where it comes from, but since you both have extensive experience of Ukraine, I'd like your opinions—about there being some radical... I think you used the term “fascist” or “neo-Nazi” anti-Semitic elements that may be in the current interim government. To what extent is this Russian propaganda to try to stir things up? To what extent is there any truth to it? I'd be interested in your opinions.
5:25 p.m.
Foreign Adviser, Public Commission for the Investigation and Prevention of Human Rights Abuses in Ukraine
Interestingly, again I refer to the communication we had this morning with Ukraine. Percentages were given for how many far-right activists there are in Austria, France, the U.K. I believe, and Canada. They're in every country, and they're marginal.
As it pertains to people on Maidan who are actually revolutionaries, I think you have to be a radical when you live in a politically criminal authoritarian regime. Be very careful to follow the statements of this Ihor Kolomoyskiy; his is a very important position. The president of the Jewish council is saying that this is not true.
Last week Israeli officials—rabbis—came to this television program called Shuster acknowledging that these were lies. It's significant. If Israel comes and says this, then what is Russia up to?
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
5:25 p.m.
Foreign Adviser, Public Commission for the Investigation and Prevention of Human Rights Abuses in Ukraine
Russia is.
5:25 p.m.
Managing Partner, Kyiv Office, CMS Cameron McKenna LLC
Yes, it's essentially.... This is the same propaganda that has been there since Soviet times.
I would just direct the committee's attention to today's National Post and to an open letter of Ukrainian Jews to Russian Federation president Vladimir Putin. I think it will explain everything, answer all of the questions you have raised. It really is a Who's Who of the Jewish community in Ukraine.
In terms of the right-wing extremists, etc., there's a lot of speculation about what rights.... Svoboda actually shows the strength of allowing people to decide: they elected them. They were radical; they actually exceeded whatever expectations they had in western Ukraine. They were very anti-Yanukovych, and that resonated with Russian-speaking people in the country. They were horrible at running Lviv, they were horrible at running Ternopil, and they're now running at 2%, so it's unlikely that they're going to be in the next parliament.
Everybody is talking about this shadowy Right Sector. They have never made an anti-Semitic statement. The only issue people have with them is that they don't want NATO or the EU. The head of Right Sector has met with the Israeli ambassador to Ukraine. They have said not only that they are opposed to anti-Semitism but that they will actively seek to root it out. They've done a great job on PR. If there is a people that the government—which has done an abysmal job on communications, by the way....
In fact, if there's one area in which I would heavily criticize them, it's that they have not been very robust in countering this machine. We have to give it to Putin; he's been planning this a long, long time. But essentially, it seeps; it's the big lie, the Joseph Goebbels school of information: the bigger the lie and the more often you repeat it, the more people will start to believe it.
But please read today's National Post.
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
5:30 p.m.
Foreign Adviser, Public Commission for the Investigation and Prevention of Human Rights Abuses in Ukraine
Pay attention to Syria from a geopolitical perspective. The first Russian visit to Israel was, I think, just last year or the year before. It was since its independence. Syria is a flashpoint. The Russian Black Sea Fleet has a port there in the Tatus Strait.
So it's Syria.
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Thank you.
To our witnesses, thank you very much. I appreciate your flexibility. We wanted to get your testimony, and we've been able to do that. Thank you.
This meeting is adjourned.