Evidence of meeting #32 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was obviously.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Andrew P.W. Bennett  Ambassador, Office of Religious Freedom, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Thomas Lawson  Chief of the Defence Staff, Department of National Defence

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), our briefing on the deployment of Canadian Armed Forces personnel in Iraq will begin.

I want to introduce our witnesses who are at the table.

We have with us today, Peter Boehm, who is the associate deputy minister of Foreign Affairs. Welcome, sir, we're glad to have you here.

Sitting next to him, we have Ambassador Andrew Bennett, who is the ambassador of the office for religious freedom. Welcome, sir.

We also have Minister Baird, the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

We have Minister Nicholson, the Minister of Defence.

We also have Thomas Lawson, who is the Chief of the Defence Staff.

We are going to start with the opening statements. We will start with Mr. Nicholson. Then we'll move to Mr. Baird and finish up with Mr. Bennett. Then we'll go around the room over the next two hours to ask questions to fill in some of the blanks based on the testimony.

Minister Nicholson, I'm going to turn the floor over to you now. The floor is yours, sir.

11 a.m.

Niagara Falls Ontario

Conservative

Rob Nicholson ConservativeMinister of National Defence

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chair, honourable members, I want to thank you for the invitation to appear before your committee today.

I also want to thank you all for taking time out of your schedules to come back from your ridings in order to be here in Ottawa to discuss this very important issue.

As everyone around the table unfortunately knows, the world has borne witness to unspeakable barbarism in northern Iraq in recent months at the hands of an Islamist terrorist entity known as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, also known as the ISIL.

Stories have emerged of horrific beheadings. We have heard reports of mass graves and children being buried alive. We have also heard that Yazidi women are being kidnapped and sold into slavery by ISIL fighters. Those who refuse to convert to Islam are killed. So let us not mince words. This terrorist organization is not only committing barbaric murders through the systemic killing of religious minorities, but represents a real and growing threat to civilization itself. This is unacceptable to Canadians and to this government.

It is incumbent upon all nations who believe in democracy, religious freedom, freedom of expression, and the rule of law to confront those who would threaten the innocent.

This is why our government has decided to take action. I am happy to be here to provide you with details on the role the Canadian Armed Forces will play.

Following my remark,s the Minister of Foreign Affairs will be addressing the committee on the current situation in Iraq and his first-hand experience on the ground.

As you know, last Friday in Wales, at the NATO summit, Prime Minister Stephen Harper made a statement regarding the Government of Canada's response to the situation in Iraq. Prime Minister Harper announced a deployment of several dozen members of the Canadian Armed Forces to Iraq, a deployment that will begin shortly upon final discussion with the Government of Iraq. The Canadian Armed Forces members in question will provide strategic and tactical advice to Iraqi forces with the goal of increasing their effectiveness in operations against the extremist group.

Let me be clear. These forces will be present in an advisory and assistance role, not a combat role.

Mr. Chair, this deployment is in support of Iraqi security forces because any long-term solution to Iraq's stability is first and foremost an Iraqi responsibility. The initial deployment of our troops will be for a period of up to 30 days and it will be reassessed after that time. I'm happy to say that although Canada's contributions are important, we are not alone in offering assistance to the Government of Iraq. In fact, the Canadian Armed Forces will work closely with their U.S. counterparts in this mission and will be joining our allies in providing critical advice to the forces in Iraq as they continue to repel the terrorist advance.

Mr. Chair, I would also like to remind the committee that the Government of Canada has also previously taken steps to assist the people of Iraq. On August 15 the Prime Minister announced that Canada would begin delivering critical military supplies to Iraqi security forces in order to assist them in their fight against ISIL. A CC-130J Hercules transport aircraft and one CC-177 Globemaster 3 Strategic Airlifter were committed to transport military supplies donated by our allies. Based in staging locations in the Mediterranean, approximately 75 Canadian Armed Forces personnel have been deployed for this work. This includes air crew, ground crew, and logistical support personnel.

I can confirm that 11 flights by the Royal Canadian Air Force have taken place delivering almost 500,000 pounds of military supplies from our allies. These supplies are enabling Iraqi security forces to halt the advance of ISIL while preventing further attacks against defenceless populations. Recently the Minister of Foreign Affairs announced that Canada will contribute $15 million in non-lethal security assistance to support Iraqi security forces and to limit the movement of foreign fighters into Iraq and Syria.

Mr. Chairman, the Government of Canada is taking these steps because this terrorist organization has created a grave security and humanitarian crisis in Iraq. This terrorist group is responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent men, women, and children. It is clear that the further encroachment of ISIL threatens the territorial integrity of Iraq and poses a very real threat to regional and global security. There is real concern that this radical militant group is likely to harbour terrorists that may threaten Canada and our allies. Canadians are reading reports of these atrocities and they are concerned. This is why, in coordination with our allies and the Government of Iraq, Canada has taken these deliberate steps to help bolster the Iraqi security forces as they counter ISIL's militant activities and expansionist agenda.

Mr. Chair, this deployment is a tangible example of our determination to contain this terrorist group while helping to mitigate the ongoing humanitarian crisis. This is not a combat mission. This mission is not without risk. As always, and General Lawson will attest to this, our men and women in uniform are ready to answer the call. I think I speak for all of us around this table and all Canadians in thanking them for always being prepared to defend Canadian values and interests in this increasingly dangerous world.

Again, honourable members, thank you for taking the time to convene and discuss this issue.

It's my hope that, given the direness of the situation, we can come together and support these efforts to save lives and push back this threat to global security.

Both the Chief of the Defence Staff, General Tom Lawson, and I will be available afterwards for questions.

Thank you.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Thank you very much, Minister Nicholson.

We'll now turn the floor over to Minister Baird for his opening remarks.

September 9th, 2014 / 11:05 a.m.

Ottawa West—Nepean Ontario

Conservative

John Baird ConservativeMinister of Foreign Affairs

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and colleagues.

Just a few short days ago I got back from Iraq where I was joined by two of our colleagues here today, Paul Dewar and Marc Garneau. We went to demonstrate Canada's solidarity with the people of Iraq in this incredibly challenging time, to see the situation for ourselves, to urge Iraqi leaders to come together in a united and pluralistic government, and to learn about what more needs to be done.

I have to tell you that it was an emotional trip at times. It was just absolutely horrifying to see the literally hundreds of thousands of people who have been forced to flee their homes, and to listen to the stories about what they are fleeing from.

I think I can speak not just for this government and this Parliament but for this country when I say that we are determined that Canada will do its part in dealing with this crisis, on both a security, and just as important, a humanitarian level.

I'd like to take a few minutes to reflect on the rise of ISIL, the nature of the challenge that it has created, and some of the steps that need to be taken in tackling this challenge. After that I'd of course be keen to take any questions, ideas, suggestions, or comments you may have.

When confronted by the Arab Spring—now nearly a deep winter—Bashar al-Assad, an Alawite Shia, embarked upon a bloody campaign against his own people. Regional Sunni jihadists found their clarion call. Al-Qaeda in Iraq, the forebear of ISIL, grew increasingly sophisticated as they effectively erased the border between Iraq and Syria.

At the same time, Sunni tribes and leaders in Iraq grew increasingly disenchanted by the overly sectarian government in Baghdad. ISIL and Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the self-proclaimed caliph of the so-called Islamic State, filled that void.

As we've all watched in shock at the speed of their advance and the brutality they have employed, they have captured Mosul and other cities, and have taken over key infrastructure, including dams, oil fields, and military facilities. In doing so, they have executed hundreds of Iraqi troops. They have ruthlessly targeted anyone they don't agree with, and there are growing reports of them using rape as a weapon of war, a horrible phenomenon against which Canada has been campaigning with the United Kingdom and others.

We know about some of these actions because they themselves document them to fan the flames of terror in the hearts of those they seek to rule. They don't hide their brutality; they in fact promote it. They film it; they tweet it, and they bask in the reaction that it causes. The despicable beheading of two international journalists in particular has raised the profile of the terrible threat they pose. But let's not forget the thousands who have been victims of the same treatment. Those who happen to believe in God in a different way have tragically taken the brunt of their wrath.

Our government has consistently spoken out on matters with respect to religious freedom, and I'm glad that Canada's ambassador for religious freedom, Dr. Andrew Bennett, has joined us to brief us on that aspect.

The reality is that ISIL intends to eliminate the very notion of religious freedom through bloodshed and through fear. Repugnant reports continue to stream in of Christians, Yazidis, Turkmen Shiites, and others, including women and children, being ordered to convert to ISIL's barbaric interpretation of Islam or face death.

I remember talking to a Christian family at an IDP camp last week. Their neighbours had informed on them to ISIL and within five minutes they had to escape for their lives. This is one of just so many stories of the scale of human tragedy. Really, it's hard to comprehend, just as it is frankly hard to stomach.

What we are facing here is one of the most barbaric terrorist groups the world has ever seen. This is not someone else's problem. We are talking about a group of people who want to impose their barbarism everywhere from southern Spain through to India.

Their world view is a direct challenge to the values of western civilization, and it is a threat to international security and stability. It is obviously in all of our interests not to allow them to have a foothold from which they can launch attacks abroad. This battle against terrorism is one of the great struggles of our generation.

What we are facing here is one of the most barbaric terrorist groups the world has ever seen. It is not somebody else's problem. It is not a problem that will remain between the Euphrates and Tigris rivers. It's obviously in all of our interests to not allow them to have a foothold from which they can launch attacks abroad. The battle against terrorism I believe is the great struggle of our generation. We don't know how long the struggle will take or exactly how it will unfold, but there are actions that can be taken now to stem the flow of the threat, both by Iraqis, and just as importantly, by the international community.

There are three key areas for action. We need a firm and focused response from Iraqi authorities. We need to assist those who are on the front lines of this fight. We need to continue to help those who are its victims.

First is a strong and united government. Like the fingers of a hand coming together into a tight fist, the stability and security of Iraq depend on its government presenting a united front against terrorist threats. This was a key focus of our meetings with leaders in Baghdad last week, so I was very pleased to see yesterday that the Iraqi Parliament has approved a new government and cabinet under the leadership of a new prime minister.

The unified leadership must put aside ethnic and religious divides and work together to meet the needs of all Iraqis, whatever their creed or colour. As I made clear to the government last week, Canada has committed to work with them as they seek to do this. It is tremendously important that this government have not just an inclusive cabinet, but an inclusive program that reaches out to Kurds, to Sunnis, and to other minorities.

Minister Nicholson has covered what we're doing so far on the security front. The humanitarian challenge is just as daunting.

The violence has displaced some 850,000 people over the last two months alone. That adds up to a staggering 1.4 million since the beginning of just this year. In response to this, Canada is providing additional humanitarian support that will directly help to alleviate their hardship. Practical aid is being provided: food, hygiene kits, cooking materials, blankets, tents, medicines, and other important supplies.

Much of our security and humanitarian assistance is focused on the Kurdish region, which we visited as part of our trip last week. Ambassador Saccomani has also been spending time there, and I'd like to pay special tribute to his hard work. ISIL has been testing the peshmerga while the KRG leadership also works to provide humanitarian relief. Also, our international allies have assessed that Kurdistan is where Canadian military help is needed. Canada stands with the Kurdish peshmerga soldiers who are bravely fighting these terrorists and holding back their advance in the north.

As I conclude, I ask that as we consider whether or how to act we also consider what happens if we don't act. What happens if Canada does not do everything in its power to stop this barbarism? Will we be willing to look ourselves in the mirror in 10 years and ask if we have done enough? In a situation like this, there are no easy options, quick fixes, and win-wins. It might seem easy to ignore as we go about our comfortable lives here in Canada. It might seem convenient to brush off options as leading to mission creep in the future, but the hard reality is that inaction is not an option.

The reality is that inaction is not an option. We must fight terrorism from a position of strength and unity. We also have to stand in solidarity with the Iraqi people during this incredibly difficult time.

That's all I wanted to say. I now look forward to hearing from Ambassador Bennett, who will deliver a few words.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Thank you, Minister Baird.

We will now turn the floor over to Ambassador Bennett for his opening statement.

11:15 a.m.

Dr. Andrew P.W. Bennett Ambassador, Office of Religious Freedom, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, vice-chairs, and distinguished members of the committee.

I am honoured to have been invited to speak on the dire and truly grave situation faced by Iraq and its people.

I thank the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development for convening this meeting.

Since January and exponentially since June, the Iraqis have witnessed the newest and deadliest wave of hatred in the world against religious communities. By now, we are all familiar with the suffering and violence faced by millions of Iraqis at the hands of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, or ISIL.

We have witnessed thousands of families forced from their homes and into refugee camps for standing in the way of ISIL's purported Islamic caliphate. We have heard how hundreds of Yazidi women have now been abducted, converted to Islam, and married to ISIL militants against their will. We have watched the massive expulsion of nearly 200,000 Iraqi Christians from places like Mosul and the surrounding area, places in which their churches have been a continuing presence for nearly 2,000 years.

These images show us a reality we cannot ignore.

Since the creation of the Office of Religious Freedom, in February 2013, I have monitored the trend of increasing social hostilities directed towards many different religious communities in Iraq and the surrounding area.

In all my outreach to the various Iraqi and Syrian religious communities—including members of the Syriac and Chaldean Catholic Churches, the Armenian Apostolic Church, the Assyrian Church of the East and the Canadian Yazidi community—every one of them shared the same anguish and the same fears about ISIL and its ideology, which drives its followers to perpetuate acts of such inhumane barbarism.

Minister Baird and I, as well as Prime Minister Harper, have vehemently spoken out against the violence perpetrated by ISIL against the Yazidis, Iraqi Christians from all the distinctive ecclesial traditions, Shiite Muslims, and others. I should also add that Sunni Muslims who do not agree with ISIL face active barbarism on a regular basis. On these occasions, Canada has repeatedly confirmed its leading role in protecting and advocating on behalf of all religious communities under threat, regardless of their faith, ethnicity, or country of origin.

As the Ambassador for Religious Freedom, I have also made it a priority to raise awareness among Canadians on these atrocities that target our fellow human beings based on the faith they profess. In seeking to raise awareness amongst our fellow Canadians, I have further emphasized how democracy cannot find fertile ground where freedom of religion—including the freedom to worship in peace and security—is not respected.

I will continue to advocate strongly with our allies in this cause, and with the support of my colleagues in the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development, for greater championing of religious freedom in Iraq and in the region, for increased religious dialogue, which is essential for pluralism to thrive in Iraq and the broader region, and for guaranteeing the safety and dignity of religious communities in Iraq. We hope to be aided in this effort by the newly created contact group on religious freedom, an initiative spearheaded by my office to develop, among like-minded partners on the issue of religious freedom, common approaches and joint activities to promote and defend religious freedom around the world. In the past month I have performed extensive outreach with Iraqi and Syrian religious communities, including members of the Chaldeo Syriac Assyrian churches, the Yazidi community, the Jewish community including the World Jewish Congress, and Muslim communities, as well as many other churches and Christian denominations, to identify how best to help and support these gravely threatened communities. This has included a focused discussion with a number of faith-based aid organizations such as the Catholic Near East Welfare Association and Aid to the Church in Need.

Tomorrow, as part of the discussions in Toronto with the Ismaili Imamats and the Aga Khan Development Network, I will seek their perspective on how Muslims might be more directly engaged in taking action, in whatever way, to defend the religious freedom of religious minorities in the Middle East.

The office of religious freedom, through its religious freedom fund, is currently assessing a number of projects in Iraq to increase interfaith dialogue and lay the foundation for a safe and respectful environment for religious minorities in Iraq.

In the next two to three months, the office will continue to work closely with partner organizations to identify initiatives to improve interfaith relations and dialogue in Iraq in the medium and long term, and further contribute to the development of a country where every individual has the opportunities and resources to continue to practice their faith freely and without fear.

The religious freedom programming is an integral component of Canada's broader long-term strategy to address the situation in Iraq and assist the victims of ISIL. It will be designed to complement Canada's assistance effort in Iraq, including humanitarian aid, and will contribute to the development of a stable Iraq where religious freedom is fully endorsed, as only a unified, pluralistic, and representative government can overcome the current crisis.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I very much look forward to the committee's questions.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Thank you, Ambassador.

We are going to start as we normally do. It's our custom to have a first round of seven minutes for all parties. We're going to start with Mr. Harris, followed by Mr. Bezan, and then Mr. Garneau. Then we're going to move into five-minute rounds as we move forward through the rest of the questions.

I'm going to start with Mr. Harris.

11:25 a.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, gentlemen, for your presentations this morning.

All Canadians are of course extremely concerned about the extreme violations of international humanitarian law, crimes against humanity, and war crimes that have been committed. We're also obviously very concerned about the hundreds and thousands, as Minister Baird mentioned, of displaced persons within Iraq who have left with, in many cases, nothing but the clothes on their back. My colleagues will deal with some of that, but I want to deal with the military aspect of it and the response announced by the Prime Minister. We do need some clarity here, because we've heard numbers such as a few dozen, which you mentioned here today, but we've also heard a hundred, which is a little more than that. You talked about 75 Canadian forces being involved in the airlift, but the announcement on August 15 was about 30.

We'd like to have a little bit of clarity, so I have four simple questions.

First of all, Mr. Nicholson, how many Canadian Forces troops are being deployed to Iraq? Are they special operations forces? Where specifically will they be? What language capability does the Canadian Armed Forces have to operate in the role you mentioned, the advisory role in amongst the Kurds in Iraq? I understand that is where we'll be helping.

I have those four questions first, and if you could keep the answers short, it would be great, because I have a few other questions as well.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

Again, at this point in time, several dozen will be deployed to that area, Mr. Harris. They will be special operations forces. I can indicate that to you. They will be located in northern Iraq, and it's my understanding that we will be using translation services in cooperation with our allies.

11:25 a.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

Perhaps General Lawson should answer the second question.

Do we have a status of forces agreement with the Iraqi government? I know there's a question of getting the consent of the Iraqi government. We think we should also get the consent of the Canadian Parliament, but a status of forces agreement should be very important. When will we be likely to have one of those?

Second, General Lawson, could you indicate and describe the chain of command between you and our troops on the ground that are proposed to go to Iraq?

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

Might I just answer that first, General? The Chief of the Defence Staff will be in charge of Canadian Forces in Iraq. We will work in cooperation and in collaboration with our allies, but the Chief of the Defence Staff will have the control and ultimate responsibility for Canadian Forces.

That being said, we have several Canadians on the ground now, and they have been welcomed by the Iraqi government. Again, we will be working with the new government for their cooperation.

Is there anything you wanted to add, General?

11:25 a.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

I think my question was a bit more specific than that regarding a status of forces agreement. I don't think General Lawson would be on the ground there, so the chain of command is also of interest.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

Again, they come under the responsibility of the Canadian Armed Forces, and ultimately that responsibility resides with General Lawson. As we have on a number of these occasions, we'll work in collaboration with our allies, but the forces on the ground will be under Canadian direction and control.

11:25 a.m.

General Thomas Lawson Chief of the Defence Staff, Department of National Defence

The only thing I would add to that, Mr. Chairman, is that the articles normally covered in a SOFA, as you've mentioned, will be provided to us through a diplomatic note that our partners at Foreign Affairs are helping us with at this time.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

If I could briefly—

11:25 a.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

Do you have any notion of timing, Minister Baird?

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

I'll be very quick.

Prime Minister al-Maliki has not led an inclusive government and it has been problematic in this interim period. With the formation of the new government, which Parliament approved last night, that should follow in short order.

11:25 a.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

When are we talking about in terms of actual deployment?

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

Again, for national security reasons we don't pinpoint these things, but our appearance before today and the briefings that we have given you and the announcements that we have made have indicated that Canadian Forces will be deployed. We don't give the exact time and place for obvious security reasons.

11:30 a.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

Are we talking a week? Are we talking a month?

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

Again, we're moving as quickly as possible, and as I indicated to you, there are already members of the Canadian lead in this area on the ground.

11:30 a.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

You still haven't answered the question of how many. Of course, that's pretty obvious. We are proposing a 30-day mission. I don't know what is expected to be accomplished within 30 days, but perhaps you could tell us that.

When the Prime Minister announced this in Wales, in his speech he said that the contribution of Canada is based on an assessment by the United States as to how Canada could best contribute. A review, or reassessment, in 30 days; will that be based on what the Americans think in 30 days? Or do we have any specific criteria by which a judgment might be made of whether Canada would continue in the role that's being proposed, or some other role, or as it's sometimes called, although I don't necessarily like the term, “mission creep”, which has been a way of describing what might come next?

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

As my colleague I think just said in comments yesterday, we have to deploy and assist people where we can. It's not a question of mission creep. Otherwise we wouldn't be there to help anybody, if that was always hanging over our head.

That being said, we've said that we're going to analyze this on an ongoing basis. I think it's quite reasonable to say that after we're on the ground and we are moving to assist...that to have this reviewed in 30 days I think is entirely appropriate. I'm hoping you'll agree with that and that you'd want us to have an ongoing analysis of how this is working.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

If I could, we have two short-term goals. One is obviously to stop the advance of ISIL so we can contain the growing humanitarian catastrophe. Two is to provide support to the KRG and Iraqi officials and forces to turn back the advance, to support, to help them help themselves. This thing is moving very quickly. The advance was very quick.

On a positive side, the airdrops to support the Yazidi and religious minorities on the mountaintop went demonstrably faster than anyone could have imagined. This thing is moving very quickly. The Prime Minister has obviously said he will review it after 30 days, which I think is intelligent.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Thank you very much, Mr. Baird and Mr. Harris.

We'll now move to Mr. Bezan for seven minutes, please.