Foreign Affairs Committee on Dec. 9th, 2014

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Do I get my full time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Yes, you do. Madame Laverdière did as well. So go ahead.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Bishop Emmanuel, can you tell us where the assistance is coming from right now? Canada has tried to make sure it has paid its commitments and done that. Does the assistance to your community come from other church communities? Is it coming from governmental help?

We heard some testimony the other day that there was some interference with assistance being delivered to the camps. Can you tell us a little bit about your people and where their assistance is coming from? Clearly, you have said they need more as well, but can you just help us with that a bit6

[Emmanuel Joseph Mar-Emmanuel]

The assistance is coming from Canada. It has taken a very active role to provide humanitarian assistance, and there's also its recent role in the military coalition with other countries.

The assistance, funding and humanitarian aid, comes from many European countries and the United States as well. Also, we have our communities in North America, here in Canada and in the United States, and even in Europe and Australia, and people in the congregations try to support their relatives or the situation there. These funds are given out and distributed with no discrimination even to non-Christians and others who are suffering.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

May I ask who is providing protection to your community then? You have moved into the Kurdish areas that the peshmerga control. How is the security situation in that area?

[Emmanuel Joseph Mar-Emmanuel]

Some at the beginning blamed the Kurdish since they have a strong foothold in certain regions close to Mosul but they withdrew and then people fled the country.

As you know, there was a certain tension between the Iraqi central government and the Kurdish regarding the budget, but probably now things are getting better with the new Iraqi government's election.

Of course, now the Iraqi army and even the Kurdish are being supported by the international community, which is providing military assistance and advisers. The United States is very involved and even Canada.

They had certain suggestions for the Christians so they could defend themselves despite their small numbers. They have formed certain security guards to protect their villages as much as they can.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I want to ask both of you what your thoughts are on the new Iraqi government. Are they going to be able to provide the state structure that is needed in order to return your people to their areas and then to provide some level of protection for them?

Mr. Halevi, you have talked about state building. Is the Iraqi government going to be able to build its political infrastructure faster than ISIS can in the areas where ISIS now dominates, or actually in the area we would like to see them pushed back from?

[Emmanuel Joseph Mar-Emmanuel]

The Iraqi government promises, but I think it needs the support of the international community; that was made clear, especially about the liberation of Mosul. Even in some news it speaks about certain churches in Mosul, many ancient churches, being turned into prisons by ISIS. It's very difficult to know how to liberate the city from the forces of evil or darkness.

The Iraqis, too, encouraged the citizens of Mosul to do that as well. They sought to give them the courage, as they have done with certain tribes, on the ground so they could all work together along with the military in a way to liberate the city.

[Jonathan Dahoah Halevi]

We can look into the larger picture of the Middle East and then into Iraq and look at what's happening in Lebanon. Lebanon is divided. Syria has disintegrated. Yemen has disintegrated also. Shiites supported by Iran took over the capital city of Sana'a. We see the pressures inside Bahrain and inside Saudi Arabia between Sunnis and Shiites. In Iraq things have also disintegrated. Sunnis in the northern part of Iraq are being controlled mainly by the Islamic State. You have Kurdish autonomy. There is an almost independent entity inside Iraq and they have a Shiite...and the pressure on Baghdad, the mixed capital city of Iraq, is enormous. There have been hundreds of terrorist attacks during the last few years. I cannot see a magic wand that can reunite all Iraqis under the same nationality as they were in the past. The pressures between the two forces of Sunnis and Shiites in the Arab world are so intense that they are causing more disintegration in the area. And unfortunately as I see it, they may cause more and more tensions and frictions between these two sects.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We're going to start our fourth round with Mr. Donnelly.

Go ahead for five minutes, please.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you to our witnesses for providing testimony today.

Mr. Halevi, we've heard troubling testimony at this committee about the relationship between Syria's President Assad and ISIS. I'm wondering, in your view, how the situation in Syria relates to the ISIS crisis or threat.

[Jonathan Dahoah Halevi]

What was said in the testimony about Assad and ISIS? What was the main argument?

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Well....

[Jonathan Dahoah Halevi]

You asked me about what was said about ISIS and Assad. ISIS, the Islamic State, is—

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Do you want to provide your comment about...?

If not, I can ask another question.

[Jonathan Dahoah Halevi]

I can comment on it.

ISIS, the Islamic State, is an enemy of Assad because for ISIS, the Assad regime represents an infidel government, the Alawites, which is an offshoot of the Shiites. For ISIS they should be executed as apostates, and particularly, Syria is called al-Sham. Al-Sham means the old area. Syria, Jordan, Israel, and Lebanon are part of the prophecy of Muhammad. This would be the first area from which the jihad would start to expand, and that's why they are focusing on Syria.

ISIL, the Islamic State in Syria and the Levant, was established first of all in Iraq and then in Syria in order to organize and unite all Islamic forces under one flag of Islam to establish a very strong basis, a stronghold inside Syria, to be used as a basis for launching the jihad.

There is no way for compromise between the Islamic State and the Assad regime. There is no way. They are not talking about compromise. They aren't looking for any negotiation with the Assad regime. He is a prime enemy. If you have listened to what Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the caliph, the leader of the Islamic State, has said, it's very important. He talked about the next target, which means Saudi Arabia and Jordan. But he said to the followers of the Islamic State that there is a religious obligation to kill the disbelievers. This is the priority. But they should also remember that their first priority, their first enemy, is the Shiites. They shouldn't misunderstand him. They also have to look after the Shiites. They should not give the Shiites control of the area on a silver platter.

That explains in a nutshell the animosity of the Islamic State towards Iran and Bashar al-Assad of Syria.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

UN Security Council Resolutions 2170 and 2178 call on member states to suppress and prevent the illicit movement of money and weapons to extremist organizations through border controls and information sharing. I'm wondering if you could speak to the importance of strong controls on weapons and financial transfers.

[Jonathan Dahoah Halevi]

We have seen for many years the transfer of funds and weapons into conflict areas that brings about terrorism and instability. It started with what is called dawah, propagating for Islam by Saudi Arabia in the sixties and into the late seventies, which meant to build communities in order to spread Islam. In some cases, we saw at that time Saudi charities that also supported the mujahedeen in Pakistan, in Afghanistan, in the Middle East and other areas. That was the strategy. That was the way it was constructed.

Money went either directly to the mujahedeen or through charities in order to support the infrastructure, the network of the mujahedeen, by supporting the families of what they called “martyrs”—the terrorists—and supporting what they called “prisoners”, terrorists who were convicted and serving jail terms, etc. That was the disguise.

By the way, one of the cases was here in Canada. It was a Canadian organization that sponsored millions of dollars to front the organization of Hamas. That also supported the network of Hamas and gave them the money they needed to promote their activities.

I think it's crucially important to look after the money. Of course, for weapons, it's not a question; weapons should be getting a close look, but it's also the money. The money here is crucial to finance and to give life to these organizations.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

We're now going to Ms. Brown for five minutes.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Halevi, for those comments. That is the very reason our Canada Revenue Agency takes so seriously the auditing of the charities we have in Canada. We have very robust rules on contributions and how they can be used. If they start to be directed towards political activity, it is the responsibility of the CRA to ensure that these organizations are following the well-established rules.

I wonder if you could help me, though, with a bit of education. I need to be educated here. You spoke earlier about a tenet of the faith: that Rome, Istanbul, and Jerusalem must be liberated for the coming of the messiah. That's basically what you said. Is that the tenet?

[Jonathan Dahoah Halevi]

That's what Muhammad said. I just quoted Muhammad.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Is that shared by both Sunni and Shiites?

[Jonathan Dahoah Halevi]

Yes.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

If that is the tenet of the faith and we see this uprising that's going on with ISIS, is there going to be.... You say that they want to establish the caliphate so they have a stronghold from which to work. If this is accepted by Muslim people all together, should we expect more attacks and more terror?

[Jonathan Dahoah Halevi]

The restoration of the caliphate that ended in the last century when the Ottoman Empire collapsed triggered the establishment of the Muslim Brotherhood in the late 1980s, and later the Hizb ut-Tahrir in the 1950s. By the way, the Muslim Brotherhood is the largest Muslim organization worldwide. It's an international organization that has branches here in Canada also. The Hizb ut-Tahrir is also an international organization with branches in Canada.

The issue of establishing the caliphate is essential for Muslims. This is part of the religion, part of the goal. The end goal is to establish a caliphate in which Islamic law will be implemented.

One of the imams who warns of the radicalization, the Wahhabism, etc., in Canada, said in an article that Canada should let all countries in the Middle East establish the Islamic law, the sharia. For him this is the solution. Sharia law, Islamic law, should be implemented. Even though he denounced the Wahhabism, he supports sharia law.

The difference between these groups is focused mainly on the tactics to realize this goal of the caliphate and the Islamic law. The Islamic State, ISIS, like al-Qaeda, supports using the violent jihad in the first stage. Others, like Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, who is the most important prominent scholar in the Muslim world and the spiritual leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, said in 2003 that we have to use the dawah, which means propagating Islam, and immigration as a tool in order to take over Europe. We have to do it in stages. Don't do it, first of all, to resort to jihad, because that will cause the other side to take actions against it.

Hizb ut-Tahrir is promoting this as the main agenda to establish the caliphate, and they changed the policy very recently because of the establishment of the caliphate. If they're promoting the caliphate, and the caliphate already exists, what's the role of Hizb ut-Tahrir today? They decided that they should take action for the first time, not only preaching to and educating the Muslims, but also taking concrete actions in order to establish the new caliphate.

The difference between all the groups is about what the specific and the right conditions to establish the caliphate are. Hizb ut-Tahrir said that the caliphate, under the rule of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, was not properly established. They can do it. By the way, one of the discussions about the caliphate was held here in Canada. They talked about it very openly. This is an issue that's being discussed. It's not being concealed. They talk about it, and when they talk about a caliphate, what they intend, in fact, is Islamic law.