Government Operations Committee on Feb. 5th, 2008

[Jill Ronan]

Yes, iAccess.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Could anybody tell us approximately what percentage of the compensation advisers have access to this?

[Jill Ronan]

I couldn't.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Would you say half? I'm asking because this is something we would have to bring forward as a recommendation. It's helpful for us to find out if this is massively beneficial to compensation advisers.

[Jill Ronan]

Absolutely it is.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

We understand that the classification issue needs to be addressed and that we have to find out what the contradictions are and where they lie. But we are looking for other recommendations as well. Obviously, this iAccess is one of them. Is there anything else that you want to address before we let you go and move on to our other business? Are there other things that would be of help to other compensation advisers?

[Jill Ronan]

At this point, resources is our biggest issue.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

In the next couple of meetings we're going to be discussing resources in terms of manpower within the civil service. There's massive turnover across departments in every job, and we're going to try to get a handle on that.

[Jill Ronan]

Our concern is that we cannot sustain the overtime we're doing. The retirees coming back are not going to want to stay. If that happens, your offices are going to be bombarded with more complaints.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Could anybody comment on the massive turnover within the civil service and how it has affected the compensation advisers' work?

[Patty Ducharme]

It increases the workload dramatically. Quite frankly, it's not just exodus. It's also people coming on as terms, people brought in as students, people who have different pay rules for administration.

If you're genuinely concerned about this, I think it would be helpful for the employer to do an exit interview when pay compensation advisers are leaving their jobs. This would provide you with concrete, accurate data, which we cannot now supply. We don't have access to those members when they're leaving. The employer should be doing exit interviews with those workers and asking them why they're leaving. This way, you'll get the answer.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

A statistic I've seen is 60% turnover in the civil service within a year. That affects the workload that would be put on compensation advisers. This is an issue that you have to address, but it's also an issue the federal government has to look at. We need to look at the broader picture and ask why the whole civil service is moving like it is. We see the problem when we consider the compensation advisers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you, Mr. Warkentin.

As you can see, we're still very much committed to your issue. We will continue to debate it as we continue to debate the issue of employee turnover. We're going to keep your issue top of mind.

Ms. Bourgeois, your speech will have to be very brief because we have something else on the agenda.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Yes, Madam Chair.

I would simply like to propose to you, and to my colleagues, that we see Ms. Boudrias and Ms. Jauvin again in this committee so that we can make judicious recommendations. I'm making that an official motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

All right.

All those in favour of bringing back Madame Jauvin and Madame Boudrias ?

It is unanimous.

We'll ask the clerk to have them come back. I'm going to take a brief two-minute break while our people exit so we can go on to the next order of business.

Thank you for your work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

I'm calling the meeting to order. We're going to deal with the first motion, which is the motion by Mr. Holland.

Go ahead, Mr. Holland.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I bring forward a motion, and I'll be brief. I'm looking for a single meeting to explore this issue, as there are a number of different concerns.

We're talking first about the light rail project. At the time there were ten separate projects that also had memorandums of understanding. Only this project was singled out, and it was done so during a municipal election. What is key here is that there was a confidentiality agreement between the government and Siemens with respect to this project. The now Minister of the Environment, the then President of the Treasury Board, leaked the contacts after obtaining a copy of the LRT contract between the City of Ottawa and Siemens PCL/Dufferin. He leaked the package to the media and misrepresented its contents. Clearly this had a major impact on the municipal election.

The concern is that the minister not only used his position to influence the outcome of a municipal election but misrepresented a contract and may have in fact violated the terms of a confidentiality agreement. So I think it's important that we examine those issues and that we find out exactly what happened and what role was played to influence the outcome of that election. That's the reason for having the motion before the committee today.

Madame Folco has a small amendment, just to focus the witness list a little bit, because it was a little general in the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

I'll go to Mr. Moore first. Or do you want to hear the amendment first?

Madame Folco, let's have your amendment, please.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

The amendment I'm moving makes no change to the spirit of my colleague Mr. Holland's motion, but it suggests that a limited number of persons be called to testify, so that we can go quite quickly to the heart of the matter. I'm making no change to the first paragraph so I'll move immediately to the second, which reads as follows:

That this Committee hold one meeting, with a possibility of more should the committee deem it necessary, to hear witnesses including [...]

I would delete the six lines following the word “including” that form the rest of the paragraph. All the names appearing in that paragraph would be deleted and we would replace them with the following names: Mr. Wayne Wouters, Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada; Ms. Christa Wessel, counsel at Siemens Canada; Mr. Kent Kirkpatrick, City Manager of the City of Ottawa; Mr. Rick O'Connor, counsel the City of Ottawa; and Mr. Réjean Chartrand, former Director of Economic Development and Strategic Projects with the City of Ottawa.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you.

On the amendment....

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Pardon me, but who are the other individuals apart from Wayne Wouters, Kent Kirkpatrick and Réjean Chartrand?

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Christa Wessel, general legal counsel, Kent Kirkpatrick, Rick O'Connor, Réjean Chartrand. There are five.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

They take the place of Minister Baird, Mr. Poilievre and so on.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Everybody. It takes over after the word

“including”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Debate on the amendment.

Mr. Moore.