Government Operations Committee on May 28th, 2009

[The Chair, Liberal, Derek Lee]

I will call the meeting to order, colleagues. We're a little bit short of time today for reasons that will become clear on the record.

I see a quorum. We're reviewing the estimates of Public Works and Government Services Canada.

We welcome with us today as witness Minister Christian Paradis and a number of important ministry staff to help us with our review of the estimates. I believe the minister will be making an opening statement, and I invite him to do that now.

I will note, as we begin, that the minister is only able, for real reasons, to be with us for the first hour. The officials will remain. The minister may wish to make a comment on that as he makes his remarks.

Welcome, Minister Paradis. The floor is yours.

[Christian Paradis, Conservative, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, dear colleagues. I am very glad to attend this committee meeting. This is my first visit.

I will go straight to the point right away, because at noon, I must attend a federal-provincial meeting. I will meet my Quebec counterparts regarding infrastructure files. We are not giving up on this. I wanted to tell you this from the outset, Mr. Chair.

As I am sure you know, the department's Main Estimates for fiscal year 2009-2010 amount to a net $2.4 billion, an increase of $44.4 million over last year. In supplementary estimates A, we are seeking approval for approximately $350 million in additional funds.

As you know, with 14,000 employees in every region of the country, PWGSC plays a critical role in the government's daily operations and in the everyday lives of Canadians.

This committee recently heard about PWGSC's responsibilities as the government's central purchaser and property manager. It is because of these and other responsibilities that the department plays such a critical role in our government's plan for getting Canadians back to work and kick-starting our economy.

Under Canada's Economic Action Plan, Budget 2009 allocated more than $400 million to PWGSC over two years to repair and renovate federally-owned infrastructure. The department moved quickly to develop a two-year plan—the Accelerated Infrastructure Plan—to speed up the rehabilitation of our federal buildings.

And I am pleased to report, Mr. Chair, that our share of the infrastructure funds is already being invested in ways that are creating and maintaining good jobs in every region of Canada.

Broadly speaking, my department's projects fall under three main areas. The bulk of the funding—$323 million—will be allocated to repair and restore projects in federal buildings across the country, including the Parliament buildings. Fourteen million dollars will be used to enhance accessibility to federal buildings—specifically those that serve Canadians, such as Human Resources and Skills Development Canada, Service Canada, the Canada Revenue Agency, and Citizenship and Immigration Canada buildings in which customer traffic is on the increase. Together, these investments in federal buildings will amount to literally hundreds upon hundreds of projects, both large and small, in every region of Canada.

Another $40 million will go into the repair and restoration of four federal bridges: the LaSalle Causeway in Kingston, the Burlington Lift Bridge, and here in Ottawa-Gatineau, the Chaudière Crossing and the Alexandra Bridge.

Finally, $2 million will be used to develop a plan for the future of the historic Manège militaire in Quebec City. Public consultations are under way at present.

Funds allocated under Canada's Economic Action Plan must be spent by the end of the next fiscal year and my department's share will be divided roughly 50-50 over those two years. Believe me, we intend to invest every cent—and we are well on our way.

Mr. Chair, there is no doubt that this investment will have a positive impact on the Canadian construction industry—much of which is comprised of small and medium enterprises. Some funds will be disbursed through our property management service, SNC-Lavalin ProFac, which has a proven record of efficiency and broad engagement of small and medium enterprises across the country, wherever the Department of Public Works and Government Services holds assets. Based on last year, ProFac expects to work with more than 3,700 small and medium enterprises to deliver this work on our behalf.

As for bridges, much of the preparatory work has already been completed and certain contracts have been awarded. In fact, work on the Alexandra Bridge and the LaSalle causeway has already begun.

PWGSC is also coordinating closely with other departments that received infrastructure funds by providing real property, procurement and translation services. We are exploring measures to streamline processes to allow more flexibility in contracting, without compromising our principles of fairness and transparency that we follow on a daily basis.

Let me assure you that all contracting rules continue to apply. In fact, the program management framework that my department has put in place includes a robust risk management framework, including risk mitigation strategies and plans.

Mr. Chair, I'm proud of the work of my department and even more so of its positive contribution to our country's economic well-being in these difficult times.

In conclusion, Mr. Chair, I would like to commend the committee for its hearings on the ability of small and medium enterprises to access federal procurement. I believe that this is an important issue and I look forward to reading the committee's report and its recommendations.

Thank you for your attention. I am now ready to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Derek Lee]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Colleagues, I think we will stay with the eight-minute opening round since this is estimates and effectively a first appearance. This will mean that each party will have an opportunity to engage for the eight-minute first round, but it will mean that some members individually may not have an opportunity to address the minister after the first hour. They will have an opportunity to address questions to the officials.

I'm about to turn to Ms. Hall Findlay for the first round.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just note that the last time we had a minister for only an hour, we only barely got the full two rounds in on the five-minute basis.

[The Chair, Liberal, Derek Lee]

In this particular case, the meeting will continue past the first hour, so members will have plenty of opportunity to ask questions. I was of the view that it was more important for the parties to have an eight-minute round to put issues to the minister. If members don't feel that way and want to go right to five-minute rounds, we can.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

No, thank you, Mr. Chair. I was just wanting to be consistent with the last meeting. If it is possible, then, I will share my eight minutes with my colleague.

[The Chair, Liberal, Derek Lee]

The chair doesn't want to be consistent with the last meeting. I've tried to articulate why I didn't want to be. If you're ready to go, you have eight minutes.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much, Mr. Minister. I thank all of you for being here with us this morning. We have many questions for you. Unfortunately, we only have one hour, but we will do our best.

The first question I have has to do with asset sales. This relates to information that came in the economic update in the fall, but also in the more recent budget materials, which is that there is a provision in the numbers for asset sales that would reach a total of $10 billion over the course of five years.

Recognizing that federal government assets are made up primarily of crown corporations and real estate, the assumption is that an awful lot of what might be sold would come under your department, Mr. Minister. We have asked a number of times for information on what assets might be considered and to date have no information of any specific assets.

First, how will we see the approximately $2 billion for this fiscal year in revenue from asset sales? What would those assets be? What is being considered for this year and the next four years in order to achieve that $10 billion?

[Christian Paradis, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Thank you for your question.

First, let me emphasize that PWGSC manages about 1,500 buildings where nearly 241,000 federal public servants work. Among these buildings, about 1,200 are rented and 300 belong to us. These are round figures, but they are roughly accurate.

As far as we are concerned, none of the assets is targeted by the aspect of the budget that you just mentioned. PWGSC has a recurrent capitalization budget. We can buy or sell land, buy buildings, sell or rent buildings, but the plan set out in the budget does not target any of PWGSC's assets. This does not depend on our department. Therefore, I am unable to tell you more.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you, but it is rather hard to hear someone tell us that the sale of assets will bring $10 billion over five years—$2 billion this year alone—without knowing what these assets are.

Do you not see that there is a problem in saying that we will obtain such sums of money without knowing where they will come from? During a recession, we must know which assets can be sold.

at a price that makes any sense. We're a little concerned that we're talking about a fire sale in order to achieve a projection of $10 billion, approximately $2 billion in this fiscal year, first, without knowing what they are, but also worrying that we're going to end up in a fire sale just to meet these commitments.

[Christian Paradis, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

I pointed out to you that the realistic holdings of Public Works and Government Services Canada comprised 1,500 buildings, 1,200 of which are rented and 300 of which we own. The Canadian government has far greater assets that are spread over many departments. I am not in a position to tell you about the other assets.

I am looking at the budget and the place that you are referring to. The Department of Finance states that an evaluation will be made in collaboration with those who hold the portfolios for the identified assets.

Today, I am telling the committee that no assets of Public Works and Government Services Canada were identified in the course of this operation. Let me refer you to the Department of Finance with regard to this. I am not able to give you an answer. Our regular operations will be carried on, and no assets have been identified as far as this sale is concerned.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you.

I will share my time with my colleague.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you.

Good morning and welcome, Minister. Good morning to your officials. I will first put some questions to you and then I will put some questions to your officials.

On December 20, 2007, the Canadian government and the Quebec government announced that they would participate financially in the expansion of the Musée national des beaux-arts in Quebec. On May 21, 2009, your colleague, Minister Josée Verner, announced that a national architecture competition had been launched for building the new pavilion. Since December 2007, we have not spent any money or done any work. This is May 2009, and now we have a decision to hold a contest so that we can move ahead.

What exactly is going on?

[Christian Paradis, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

It's a very good piece of news. The Art Gallery—

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I am sorry, Mr. Minister, this has been delayed two years, come on!

[Christian Paradis, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

First of all, do you know where the Art Gallery is located?

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Certainly.

[Christian Paradis, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

It is located on Parliament Hill in Quebec City, so many individuals are involved in this project, including Quebec City. I met Mayor Labeaume.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

[Editor's note: technical difficulties].

[Christian Paradis, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

I am not saying that this was Mayor Labeaume. I am referring to the dynamics I witnessed last week. This is very good news. I can tell you that John Porter was very pleased.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I can understand that, he has been waiting for two years!

[Christian Paradis, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

You asked me a question, and I am pleased to answer you. I am trying to convey to you all of the enthusiasm I observed there. What I am telling you, Mr. Proulx—

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Mr. Minister, we are going to run out of time.

[Christian Paradis, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Proulx, this project is located on Parliament Hill, and, for one thing, there was a lot of debate about the whole urban planning issue.

The Government of Canada withdrew its commitment, which, if I'm not mistaken, totalled $33.7 million, and the Government of Quebec did the same thing. We reaffirmed that we would be investing when it was appropriate to do so.

For such a key project located on Quebec City's Parliament Hill, we decided to aim high and launch an international architecture competition. And this will be a beautiful project, Mr. Proulx.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Minister, two years later.

You wanted to talk about bridges and I too would like to discuss this issue with you. On March 14, in the newspaper Le Droit, it was announced that repair work would begin this spring on the Alexandra Bridge and end by the fall of 2011. In Le Droit of March 18, we read the following: "Built more than a century ago, the Alexandra Bridge will be undergoing repairs worth $52 million". On April 9: "The federal government will be speeding up the renovation of its bridges and buildings", and it was announced that two bridges would be rehabilitated or repaired. April 23, "Facelift for Chaudières and Alexandra Bridges", announced by the Government of Canada. May 8: "The federal government confirms that the Alexandra and Chaudières Bridges will be repaved".

I'm pleased that you will be repairing these bridges, because they are in my region. But how many times do you intend to make the announcement?