Madam Chair, I would be happy to start in terms of the pay system question.
I would simply say that the government has committed to work on modernizing the pay system, as you've mentioned. It has dedicated resources to that. I would also say that there could well be the need for further resources as the project matures and it goes on to another stage. But the fact that the operating budgets of departments are frozen doesn't mean that they're completely static. There will be choices made within those budgets that can accommodate important reform initiatives of which this, I would suggest, is one.
In terms of the deputy ministers managing human resources and the concerns that you have, I'll certainly let my colleague Patricia Hassard speak to the tenure of deputies. I would simply say that my office is important,
because, at the head officer's office, we work together with departments and human resource managers in order to support them. We are always present even if we do not use the same tools to help them.