Evidence of meeting #33 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was billion.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:10 p.m.
Renée Jolicoeur Assistant Deputy Minister, Accounting, Banking and Compensation Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
It will be completed by 2015-2016.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP Pat Martin
Thank you, Mike.
That concludes our first round. I'm going to indulge myself with one question regarding the West Block.
If we're so tight for money, why the $1-billion skylights? Why don't we just build a roof? What we understand is that the skylight over the courtyard is now going to have to have some new curtains so you can televise in there, because the natural light won't accommodate the chamber being televised.
Why don't we just scrap the skylights, save a couple of hundred million dollars, and put a roof over the thing?
5:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Deputy Receiver General for Canada, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I understand the question has to do with the infill and the creation of the chamber as we move to the Centre Block, so I'll let the assistant deputy minister, Pierre-Marc Mongeau, answer the question.
5:10 p.m.
Pierre-Marc Mongeau Assistant Deputy Minister, Parliamentary Precinct Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Thank you for your question. We had a quick discussion on that the last time I was here.
In fact, what we're doing right now is analyzing all sorts of solutions that could be used for this roof.
So we need to take into account several things. First, there is the difference between the natural and artificial light we put in place, which is very important. The light will be the same at any time of day. In the evening and during the day, the light will adjust…
5:10 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP Pat Martin
Why do we need a crystal palace? We're not the czar of Russia here. We can do with a roof instead of a skylight.
5:10 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Parliamentary Precinct Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
With respect to the West Block, the decision on the design was not made only by people from PWGSC. All the partners discussed the matter with us. We discussed as much with representatives of the House of Commons as we did with representatives of the National Capital Commission, and we came to a consensus.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP Pat Martin
We, as Parliament, are the ones who ultimately okay this. I don't care how many cooks were in the kitchen. Ultimately it's freaking us out that we're going to spend a billion dollars on a skylight and then have to find some way to shield the sun from coming in. I have a way to keep the sun from coming in— just put a roof on it.
5:10 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Parliamentary Precinct Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
It's not $1 billion, but actually $850 million for the whole project.
Within the project…
5:10 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Parliamentary Precinct Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
The whole project will cost $850 million, which includes all the masonry.
We have to redo the masonry walls.
The mechanical and electrical equipment needs to be reviewed, just like all the fit ups for the new offices. The roof is just one part of that.
It's almost $45 million for the whole structure. The amount will probably be double for the entire building.
It's important to know that submissions have already been made for these projects, and the government has already approved them. It wasn't us who decided on one solution or another. We propose these solutions. We have to approach the Treasury Board. Memoranda must be made to the Cabinet. The solution that was proposed is one that we've known about for several years.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
5:10 p.m.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Good. My time was not cut.
I want to come back to the issues that were raised when the minister was still here.
There is a major contract worth about $2 billion for relocating public servants and moving homes pretty much right across the country. National Defence is a very large part of that contract.
I would like to know when the last contract was awarded, in what year.
5:15 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Deputy Receiver General for Canada, Department of Public Works and Government Services
This is the relocation contract, Royal LePage, and its various permutations, so I'll turn to my colleague Tom Ring, who had a hand in procuring the actual relocation package.
5:15 p.m.
Tom Ring Assistant Deputy Minister, Acquisitions Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
If I recall correctly, it was in 2006-2007.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
How many companies submitted bids for the contract?
5:15 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Acquisitions Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I think there were two or three.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Do you know which company was awarded the contract?
5:15 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Acquisitions Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
The company that won the contract was Royal LePage.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Thank you very much. I just wanted to check.
I would also like to ask some questions about capital expenditures. In the entire Main Estimates—and this especially affects PWGSC—the capital expenditures should decrease by about $430 million in 2012-2013, a decrease of 6%. If you take into account the drop of $780 million seen in 2011-2012, the authorizations requested today are 4% lower than the authorizations requested before the Economic Action Plan was created.
Generally, when costs and capital expenses are decreased, the problem is generally put off and future generations are made to pay for things that should have been done today. The infrastructures continue to deteriorate and always need to be maintained and always need to be renovated. Their life expectancy won't be longer because we cut back on maintenance; no, it will be shorter.
How do you explain these major cuts when we should be taking care of the future of our infrastructures?
5:15 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Deputy Receiver General for Canada, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Mr. Chair, I will give you an answer that focuses on our infrastructures, meaning our buildings.
You noted that, with the Economic Action Plan, we gave $200 million to PWGSC on two occasions. So that's $400 million that we've invested in our buildings. That was fairly unusual. It was additional money that was added to our resources. That's the first point.
That money was invested in two years. The first year, we invested about 96% of the money and, in the second year, about 95.7%. This is very important. We were able to be very active to ensure that the investments were used before the door—or window—closed.
I'll also say that, when it comes to annual investments, our base is about $500 million.
Stephen, is it $500 million per annum for capitalization?
This is for investments in our buildings, a little like the investments made at the time through the Economic Action Plan.
This is ongoing.
To my knowledge, Mr. Boulerice, this money has not been decreased. These amounts are ongoing, and we have a system in place that defines what the priorities will be and where the investments must be made in our building inventory, which is worth several billions of dollars.
Lastly, we were given specific funds for our…
engineering assets. We have 20 engineering assets.
We have bridges, dams and highways. We have 20 specific engineering assets. We were given amounts in the last budget for health and safety investments, as well as for studies. In the last budget, we were given additional amounts to make investments in the order of $120 million. It's a supplementary envelope, which adds to what we have for our buildings. It's for the engineering assets.
These are the department's three asset areas.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
In the Main Estimates for this year, the capital expenditures, at item 6, have decreased by $55 million for PWGSC. That's a 16% decrease, which is considerably higher than all the decreases in the government's capital expenditures.
Is it the end of the one-time investment or the end of the Economic Action Plan, because that's almost 10% more than for everyone else?
5:15 p.m.
Chief Financial Officer, Finance Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Thank you for your question.
At first glance, the numbers are what they are, but we need to go back to the department's annual budget. What we see in the Main Estimates is just a fraction of the total annual budget. Don't forget that, from year to year, there is $300 million to $400 million in projects that materialize over the course of the year. We ask for funding as the requests for these projects are defined.
We expect that the requests for additional funding for capital projects will appear in the Supplementary Estimates (A), (B) and (C) for 2012-2013.
5:20 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP Pat Martin
Thank you, Mr. Lakroni.
That concludes your time, Alexandre.
Next, for the conservatives, we have Ron Cannan.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I wanted to first pick up on your concerns about the renovation of West Block. Have you had a chance to tour that facility yet?
