Evidence of meeting #16 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was system.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Michelle d'Auray  Deputy Minister, Deputy Receiver General for Canada, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Liseanne Forand  President, Shared Services Canada
Gordon O'Connor  Carleton—Mississippi Mills, CPC
Pablo Sobrino  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Acquisitions Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services

8:45 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

Order, please.

Good morning, everyone.

This is our 16th meeting. We are continuing our study of the main estimates 2014-15 and the Report on Plans and Priorities 2014-15. Joining us is the Hon. Diane Finley, Minister of Public Works and Government Services.

As usual, the time for the presentation is 10 minutes. The members of the committee will then be able to put questions to the minister and her colleagues from the department, particularly those accompanying her from Shared Services Canada.

Ms. Finley, thank you for being here. You have the floor for 10 minutes.

8:45 a.m.

Haldimand—Norfolk Ontario

Conservative

Diane Finley ConservativeMinister of Public Works and Government Services

Good morning.

Thank you for giving me this opportunity today.

I'm very pleased to be here today as Minister of Public Works and Government Services, and also as the minister responsible for Shared Services Canada to talk about my departments' main estimates and reports on plans and priorities for the 2014-15 fiscal year.

With me are Deputy Minister Michelle d'Auray and Chief Financial Officer Alex Lakroni from Public Works and Government Services Canada, as well as Liseanne Forand, who is the president of Shared Services Canada.

As you know, our government is focused on job creation, economic growth, and long-term prosperity for all Canadians, and both departments represented here today are primary service providers to Canada and within government, making sure we have effective and efficient operations in support of these goals.

As part of its broad mandate, Public Works and Government Services Canada serves many vital functions for the Government of Canada. Some of these roles include acting as the government’s principal treasurer, accountant, real property manager and central purchasing agent.

Of course, part of the central purchasing agent role involves procurement responsibility, including defence procurement, and I'll talk about that in a few more minutes.

Shared Services Canada, newly created in 2011 by our government, is working to standardize, consolidate, and streamline the Government of Canada's information technology services. Their mandate is to transform our existing systems, which are often costly and all too often outdated, into much more modern, reliable, and secure IT infrastructure to bring savings to Canadian taxpayers.

This morning I would like to provide some highlights on actions and progress being made by the two departments for which I'm responsible.

For the 2014-15 main estimates, PWGSC's net spending is anticipated to decrease by close to $197 million from the 2013-14 levels. As for Shared Services Canada, SSC's main estimates for 2014-15 show an increase of 5.4%, or $75.2 million.

This is largely due to the expansion of Shared Services Canada’s mandate and activities, and can be largely attributed to funding received from partner departments for new responsibilities for workplace technology devices. Partner departments are reducing their reference levels accordingly.

Looking to the year ahead, I am proud of several of our initiatives that will foster innovation, achieve additional cost savings for Canadian taxpayers and reduce red tape for small and medium-sized businesses.

In February Minister Nicholson and I announced Canada's new defence procurement strategy. This strategy represents a fundamental change in the government's approach to defence procurement, and its implementation will be a key priority for my department. Our new defence procurement strategy is designed to meet three objectives.

The first is to deliver the right equipment to the Canadian armed forces and the Canadian Coast Guard in a timely manner. The second is to leverage our purchase of defence equipment to create Canadian jobs, economic growth, and export opportunities. Third is to streamline our defence procurement processes while improving transparency and accountability.

Since that announcement we've already started to make progress. In fact the first projects under the strategy have already been announced. Those are the medium range radar and medium lift helicopter procurements. We're working with industry, as we committed to doing, on applying the new value proposition to these procurements.

Another way in which we are leveraging the government’s procurement to drive innovation and create opportunities for entrepreneurs, is through the Build in Canada Innovation Program. As you heard from my officials in December, BCIP, as we call it, allows the government to act as a first buyer, helping kick-start Canadian businesses by moving their home-grown innovations from the lab to the marketplace.

As we pledged, the build in Canada innovation program has been made permanent and now has an added military component. We're pleased to have received excellent feedback from entrepreneurs who now have greater opportunities to sell and export their innovative products while creating jobs for Canadian workers. The next call for proposals will be happening this spring.

We will also continue to work toward delivering on our government's commitment to preserve and rehabilitate our capital city's historic parliamentary precinct on time and on budget. Committee members may recall that this work is being carried out under a series of rolling five-year plans under an overarching long-term vision and plan.

On November 19, 2013, my officials appeared before this committee to provide an update on the status of renovations and the associated costs for the parliamentary precinct renovation project. I understand that at that time, committee members also made a site visit to West Block to see first-hand the cost and the complexity of the renovations there. Not only is this work crucial to ensuring that these buildings meet current construction standards and are able to fulfill their intended functions, but it also employs many skilled tradespeople.

For example, the rehabilitation of the Sir John A. Macdonald building, the former Bank of Montreal on Wellington Street, on its own will have generated around 600 jobs by the time the project is completed in 2015.

Public Works and Government Services Canada continues its major pension and pay transformation initiatives, which are replacing outdated legacy systems and centralizing service delivery for pension services in Shediac, New Brunswick, and pay services in Miramichi.

Together these transformation initiatives will enable the Government of Canada to save more than $100 million annually, starting in 2016-17. As well, Public Works is leveraging the new pension system to provide pension services for the RCMP and National Defence. These initiatives will further contribute to our government's plan to increase efficiencies and streamline our operations.

In the exercise of PWGSC's many functions, we strive to make the government more effective, more transparent, more modem and more accountable to Canadians. In keeping with this, we continue to work at further safeguarding the integrity of the public procurement process.

This is why on March 1, 2014, we further expanded the list of offences that make a company and individuals ineligible to bid on contracts. We also implemented measures that allow us to ban companies from accessing federal contracts if they have foreign convictions or make admissions of guilt in judicial proceedings. For all contracts with Public Works, subcontractors will now be bound by the same terms and conditions as the prime contractor.

Mr. Chair, now I would like to turn to Shared Services Canada.

Since its creation in 2011 it's already delivering results for Canadians in terms of savings, security, and service. SSC is building a modern and resilient IT platform that will help us meet Canadians' current and future service expectations while keeping their personal information protected and secure.

In launching the Canada cyber security strategy in 2012, our government sent a strong message that it takes security very seriously. Shared Services Canada continues to work closely with partner departments and agencies to strengthen the security of government systems—because there is simply no place for untrusted equipment and services in Government of Canada networks.

It's equally important that we make every effort to lower costs for taxpayers, another area where SSC is making its mark. By taking a government-wide approach, SSC continues to reduce duplication, increase efficiency, and cut costs. SSC has already generated $150 million in savings simply by getting better prices and reducing duplication and redundancy.

The 2014-15 report on plans and priorities underlines that we expect even better results in the future as the department realizes efficiencies in cost savings to the standardization, consolidation, and re-engineering of IT infrastructure services.

Let me provide you with a few details on this.

SSC is preparing to implement a new standardized, user friendly, and more secure e-mail system for the Government of Canada, replacing our 63 legacy systems with one. Consolidating e-mail systems to a common and more secure e-mail system will bring anticipated savings of over $50 million a year beginning in 2015-16. We've also established a first enterprise data centre which will be followed in 2014-15 by two additional government-wide data centres, eliminating up to 50 former facilities. Once the consolidation process is complete, we'll have moved from 485 data centres to seven, resulting in more savings, stronger security, and better service to Canadians.

SSC is also rationalizing the 3,000-plus overlapping and uncoordinated telecommunications networks that provide voice and data services. This will include eliminating costly Centrex telephone services and moving the government to a digital approach that takes advantage of such technologies as voice over Internet protocol, or VoIP, as an example. This will result in greater efficiencies and additional savings to taxpayers.

To further bring savings to taxpayers, SSC will be helping departments reduce their travel requirements by expanding the use of video-conferencing technologies and encouraging sharing of facilities among departments. In today's digital age, it just makes sense, not to mention that this initiative will generate about $7 million in annual savings.

Another way that Shared Services Canada is cutting costs is by consolidating and standardizing the procurement of workplace technology devices for federal employees, as mandated in budget 2013. By consolidating software contracts, Shared Services Canada will generate savings of $2.1 million in 2013-14 and $8.7 million starting next year and in future years.

Collectively, these measures are enhancing security and improving performance in service, while at the same time reducing costs and generating greater savings to taxpayers. I will continue to work to ensure that SSC's continued progress in modernizing the government's infrastructure will leave long-term benefits for Canadians.

Mr. Chair, I will conclude my remarks by saying that the Government of Canada is a large and complex organization, and whether in Public Works and Government Services or in Shared Services Canada, there will always be room for improvement. I see that both as a challenge and an opportunity. I'm also confident that these initiatives are contributing to the sound management of the resources entrusted to us and ensuring value and results for Canadian taxpayers.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I look forward to taking questions from members of the committee.

8:55 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

Thank you for your presentation, minister.

I will now give the floor to members of the committee.

Mr. Martin, you have five minutes.

March 27th, 2014 / 8:55 a.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Thank you, Minister, for being here with us today. I think you'll agree, as our committee feels, it's very important that the minister come to speak to and defend the main estimates in particular, especially with such a multi-faceted and diverse portfolio as you represent.

As the oversight committee for Public Works and all of the undertakings of Public Works, I can only say that one hour isn't really adequate for our committee to speak to you. I wish you ministers would reconsider the principle that you can't afford to give more than one hour to the oversight committee that you are coming to ask permission from to spend money. It's an important principle that I think we should reiterate at every parliamentary committee.

Having said that, I appreciate your remarks today.

We looked through the main estimates and the report on plans and priorities very carefully, but the one thing that comes to mind for me, and which I'd like to spend my time on, is a newspaper article that was released late yesterday, the day before the minister is to come before our parliamentary committee to speak to what is the largest single military procurement in Canadian history. Now we learn the government is delaying its current schedule to sign the contract for the initial delivery of the F-35s until after the next federal election. I'd like to better understand what the reasoning is for this.

You, Minister, have the dubious honour of being about the fifth minister to have to field this particular hot potato of a file, but wouldn't it be fair to Canadians to tell them? Are you or are you not going to buy this aircraft? Will there be an open competition? How much is it going to cost? We need to know that before we go into the next federal election, not after. Can you shed any light on this recent announcement which I think only came out at 10 o’clock last night?

9 a.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

Actually, there are portions of the article that are not entirely accurate. As you point out, this has been a long and troubled procurement going back well over 10 years. We started looking at it some time ago very closely because we weren't getting the product we needed in the timeframe that was committed to.

As part of that review, we set up a seven-point plan to go back and look at all of the options and do a risk assessment on the different options that were available as opposed to the F-35. We wanted to look at what the competition was, what the risks associated with each of those pieces of equipment were. We're working through that seven-point plan. No decision will be made on whether to procure the F-35 or an alternative until the plan is completed.

9 a.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

No decision has been made.

9 a.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

No decision has been made. We're going—

9 a.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

No contracts have been signed. You're now the minister—

9 a.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

What we want to do is get all the facts—

9 a.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

I'm sorry.

9 a.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

We want to get all of the facts. Then we'll do the evaluation. Then we'll make a decision.

This time, we're going to take the time to get it right, to make sure that two objectives happen. Number one is that the men and women in the military get the equipment they need. Number two is that we do it in a way that's responsible to taxpayers.

9 a.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Perhaps you can answer one specific question for me, then, because I don't see it in the RPP or the estimates.

What is the budget for this new defence procurement secretariat? How many FTEs, how many full-time jobs, are associated with this secretariat? What exactly do they do when they come to work in the morning? I mean, do we or do we not need that airplane? That's the only real question.

9 a.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

The secretariat is working very hard to make sure we have the information needed—

9 a.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

What's the budget, though, Minister?

9 a.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

—to complete the seven-point plan and make the proper decision.

For those staffing issues, I'll defer to the deputy.

9 a.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Okay.

But what is the budget for the secretariat? Where do we find it in the estimates or the RPPs, and how many full-time jobs are there, Madam d'Auray?

9 a.m.

Michelle d'Auray Deputy Minister, Deputy Receiver General for Canada, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair.

Is it with regard to the National Fighter Procurement Secretariat? Or is it with regard to the defence procurement secretariat? Is that the question that's posed?

9 a.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

It's the defence procurement secretariat specifically.

9 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Deputy Receiver General for Canada, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Michelle d'Auray

The defence procurement secretariat is in the process of being set up. There is no new money being required or requested for this. It is in fact a.... We are working and using existing employees taken from a number of organizations, and they are essentially being consolidated in an integrated secretariat. We're in the process of pulling that together right now and it will be operational in a couple of months, but essentially there is no new money being requested or required for this. We are using existing resources to do this.

9 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

Thank you.

Mr. Martin, your time is up.

Mr. Trottier, you have five minutes.

9 a.m.

Conservative

Bernard Trottier Conservative Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for coming in today.

I want to focus on some questions on the defence procurement strategy that you mentioned in your remarks. It's a big industry in Canada. A lot of Canadians don't realize that once they get away from places like Halifax, Montreal, or Vancouver, but it's actually important in the greater Toronto area and also in my riding of Etobicoke—Lakeshore.

There's a remark from a stakeholder, Tim Page, who is the president of the Canadian Association of Defence and Security Industries. He mentioned, talking about the defence procurement strategy, that these measures, once in operational effect, will result in equipment that meets the operational requirements of the armed forces in a more timely manner, stronger economic returns for Canada, and enhanced Canadian sovereignty and national security.

I know that you're trying to balance two things in Public Works. Obviously, number one is to get the equipment that Canada and the men and women in uniform need, but you're also trying to manage the expectations of taxpayers. Can you talk about the defence procurement strategy and how this new strategy actually achieves that, and how this gives us better certainty when it comes to estimates and appropriations?

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

That's an excellent question.

It's one of the things of which I'm very proud and which our department has been doing in conjunction with the Minister of National Defence and the Minister of Industry.

We've had some challenges with defence procurement in the past. These are big-ticket items. They're very complicated procurements because of the technical specifications. As well, there are always very few people who can provide these services.

What we want to do is make sure that we're getting the equipment our men and women in uniform need, but that we also do it in a way that is timely, efficient, and cost-effective for taxpayers, so we're changing the process. We're going back, and on major procurements, we're going to engage with industry early on.

Before the RFP is even released, we're going to check and see what solutions are out there, what the existing solutions are, so that if something exists, we can say, “Fine, that's something we can go after, and that's something we can specify in the RFP.” This would avoid dreaming up something that doesn't exist and losing a lot of time in an RFP where the suppliers say, “Sorry, we can't do that.” Then we've wasted time. If we engage industry earlier, we can put together a much better RFP because we'll know what's out there and who can deliver what. We'll get a sense of the price ranges, the delivery times, and the availability. That's going to make a better RFP. That will speed up the process considerably.

For major acquisitions, we're also adding something called a value proposition. In the past, on big procurements, we've required the suppliers to submit what they call IRBs, industrial and regional benefits, but those were never truly evaluated as to how good they would be for Canada. Simply, if somebody provided IRBs they got a pass or a fail, but the contract was based on technical compliance and also the price. That was all, so somebody who was offering a much greater benefit to Canada than another company was didn't get an advantage in the bid evaluation.

We're going to change that. We're adding a value proposition, and it will be rated and weighted in the evaluation of the bid response, up to probably around the 10% range. That means companies will have to invest in Canada through intellectual property transfer, through development of infrastructure, training of skills, a lot of different things that are going to provide a lot more benefit to Canada and to Canadians, and that will be heavily considered when we evaluate the proposals.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Bernard Trottier Conservative Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON

Thank you, Minister.

Could you give some examples of which procurements would use the new approach and which ones would not?

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

Basically, we're looking at defence procurements over $100 million. For those it will be mandated that there will be value propositions included in the evaluation. For anything between $20 million and $100 million, we're going to take a look at it and see if a value proposition would be appropriate. In some cases it may. In some cases it may not. For under $20 million, we won't necessarily be adding a value proposition, but we will be looking at those bids through the lens of a new and revised Canadian content policy.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Bernard Trottier Conservative Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON

I mentioned the size of the defence industry in Canada. Could you talk about some of those benefits and what it means tangibly when it comes to job creation in Canada?