Evidence of meeting #15 for Health in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was agreement.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Alain Beaudet  President, Canadian Institutes of Health Research
Glenda Yeates  Deputy Minister, Department of Health
David Butler-Jones  Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joy Smith

Thank you so much, Minister.

We'll now go to Dr. Sellah.

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Djaouida Sellah NDP Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for being here, Madam Minister.

As you know, health care is a priority for Canadians. During the last election campaign, the constituents of the Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert riding that I represent told me about the problems in our health care system, as did health care professionals.

Our citizens want to have access to a family doctor. They want to go to the emergency room and not spend the whole day waiting there. They want to obtain treatment within a reasonable timeframe.

That's currently still not the case. However, many groups are asking the federal government to be more proactive. Last Thursday, during a presentation by the C.D. Howe Institute, Don Drummond, former chief economist at TD Bank, criticized the federal government's lack of leadership in health care.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joy Smith

Dr. Sellah, the officials have reminded me that the time is up.

I'll give you time, but it's past 4:30 now. We'll pause for a moment. The minister does have to go to another event and the officials can take over.

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Djaouida Sellah NDP Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC

Madam Chair, may I finish my question for the minister, please?

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Libby Davies NDP Vancouver East, BC

Could we ask the minister if she would stay a few extra minutes to respond to this question, since it was started?

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joy Smith

Very briefly, Minister, could you take a minute to respond?

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut, NU

I can respond to the issue of health human resources. I believe that's the direction in which the individual was going.

We have made significant investments to deal with the issue of health human resources in Canada, again, recognizing that our government supports the provinces and the territories. The provincial governments deliver health care—we transfer the funding—and each jurisdiction decides how they will spend that money within their own jurisdictions, whether that means more doctors, nurses, midwives, and whatnot. That is in their prerogative and they do that.

In addition to that, our government has made significant investments in the pan-Canadian health human resource strategy, which we announced, and the internationally educated health professionals initiative. We've also made investments in aboriginal health human resources, to train more nurses and doctors in Canada and to help establish the nursing innovation strategy for remote, isolated communities. We have made a number of investments in that area.

We've also introduced a loan forgiveness program for doctors as well as nurses. If you agree to work in a community for over five years, we will forgive the debt on your student loan. There are a number of initiatives we have done to support the provinces and territories in recruiting more nurses and doctors.

Thank you.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joy Smith

Thank you, Minister, and thank you for taking some extra time.

My apologies. I'm on another time zone right now, and I was reminded that you had to go to another meeting.

Thank you so much for your time.

We're going to suspend for two minutes and then the officials will continue.

Dr. Sellah, I've stopped the clock so you can continue and have your time.

We'll suspend.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joy Smith

We'll resume our meeting.

We're going to begin with the seven-minute rounds again, and Dr. Sellah, please.

4:35 p.m.

NDP

Djaouida Sellah NDP Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I did not finish my question for the minister. We understand that she's very busy. So, my question is for the officials.

In the 2004 health accord, there were some indicators—about 60 of them, I think—on which the governments, including the Government of Quebec, had agreed. The objective was to make it possible to gauge the progress made. However, since this government has been in power, no data has been provided that would make it possible to take stock of the progress made by our health care system and to determine which areas are in need of improvement. The only available barometer is whether or not people have access to a family doctor and how much time they spend in the waiting room before finally being seen.

What does the government plan to do, especially as part of the 2014 accord, the next agreement on health care? How can you know what tools we need if you don't even know what has and has not worked in the past?

Unless I'm mistaken, the provinces were supposed to be accountable to taxpayers for the duration of the accord, but they didn't follow through. I want to know what the government has done or will do when it comes to this principle, this kind of accountability.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joy Smith

Who would like to answer that?

Please go ahead, Ms. Yeates.

November 21st, 2011 / 4:40 p.m.

Glenda Yeates Deputy Minister, Department of Health

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for the question.

The value of indicators and information is critical.

Those things are very important if we want to have an idea of the progress made since the 2004 accord.

Tremendous importance has been placed on data. Both the Canadian Institute for Health Information and the Health Council of Canada put out information from time to time about progress that's been made on the accord, and about progress in the health system generally.

It was mentioned by the honourable member that we have made considerable progress in some focused areas, for example, wait times. I think the data is much better than it was. It was a big focus area under the accord. It's very difficult and it has been very difficult to get comparable data. But the last report from CIHI commented on the fact that we are now getting much more comparable data, and we can actually see the progress that's been made.

Health human resources was mentioned by the honourable member. Again, CIHI most recently put out—and regularly puts out—the progress we're making on numbers of physicians, for example, and the nursing workforce. We've expanded the number of health professions that we are tracking to other critical professions, such as physiotherapists, occupational therapists, and pharmacists, for example. So we are continuing to expand the role of information that we have.

We have data on some areas of the accord, for example, home care. We have some information about how much home care is available across the country, but it's not an area where, at the moment, we have comparable indicators.

Individual jurisdictions, as was mentioned, report to their citizens. I would say that, relative to the past, we have much better data, but it continues to be an area where we would like to do better. As the minister mentioned, it's one of the reasons accountability is a discussion for this week's meeting, but it will be a discussion on an ongoing basis.

As I talk to my colleagues across the country, there's certainly an understanding that we need to have more data and better data. I would like to say I think we're making significant progress, but we would certainly want to continue that progress and have increasingly better data to manage and to measure, and be transparent to Canadians about the system.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joy Smith

Do you have a question, Dr. Sellah?

4:40 p.m.

NDP

Djaouida Sellah NDP Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC

How many minutes do I have left, Madam Chair?

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joy Smith

You have about a minute and a half.

4:40 p.m.

NDP

Djaouida Sellah NDP Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC

Thank you.

I don't hide the fact that I am a medical doctor and that I earned my degree outside Canada and the United States. I fought long and hard to obtain recognition and be accepted into a Quebec university.

The recognition process is extremely complicated, especially for physicians. Improvements must be made in that area.

What about this program's outcome? How many agreements have been signed and with how many provinces?

4:45 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Health

Glenda Yeates

I want to thank the member for her question.

This question is very important and very complicated.

This is an area where, particularly for physicians, there has been a lot of complexity. We've been working with provinces and territories, medical schools, and regulatory bodies across the country to try to smooth the pathways for internationally educated medical practitioners or other health care practitioners, with a view to helping them to establish their credentials here in Canada. In fact, we've had about $18 million in ongoing annual funding to work through this process.

We've been working on providing people with information about paths to licensure, even before they immigrate. We've been working with Citizenship and Immigration Canada to provide additional information overseas, so that before people get to Canada they have a basic understanding of what they need.

We've been working with--

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joy Smith

Your time is just about up. Maybe you could wrap that up a little bit.

4:45 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Health

Glenda Yeates

I think we're making good progress. We've characterized health professions into various categories, and we are working with the licensing bodies and with physicians to increase the capacity to assess, train, and get--

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joy Smith

Thank you.

Now we'll go to Mr. Brown.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Patrick Brown Conservative Barrie, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Dr. Butler-Jones, one of the successes in Canada has been tobacco reduction, and I think the Public Health Agency has had a lot to do with that. I remember seeing government ads in movie theatres in Barrie talking about the harms of youth using tobacco. I understand there's been evidence that the reduction of smoking in Canada puts Canada well ahead of many other industrialized countries.

Could you update us on how that battle has been going and what currently is being invested in the reduction of smoking in Canada?

4:45 p.m.

Dr. David Butler-Jones Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada

This is one of those areas in the portfolio where we have tobacco as it relates to chronic disease prevention and Health Canada is the regulator. So I'll just start and then I'll turn it over to Glenda to respond on behalf of the regulator.

We've seen dramatic progress, with fewer individuals smoking, better access to smoke-free spaces, and the recognition that second-hand smoke carries a risk not only for the smoker but also for the smoker's family and others. We've seen a dramatic change in Canada, which has also reinforced and supported smokers who wish to quit.

I can't count how many of my friends over the years quit smoking and then went out to a bar and thought they'd have just one. Before you knew it, they were back smoking again. It's very mutually reinforcing. With the new labelling provisions and the focus on removing flavours that attract children, there's been some tremendous work.

Glenda.

4:45 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Health

Glenda Yeates

I think we have made significant progress in Canada. The overall smoking rate is down to 17%, 9% for youth. These are very low numbers.

Internationally, Canada's a real leader. When Dr. Chan was here today and we were meeting with her, she was very supportive. I think it's the efforts we made in regulation. The packaging, the flavoured cigarettes—we've tackled all of those issues.

We've worked with the provinces and territories on enforcement and compliance. We've worked on denormalizing tobacco use, and we can see the effect of the tobacco control strategy. It's been significant, so we're pleased. We continue to measure and we continue to see decreases. Obviously, we would like to continue to move forward, but we see progress and we are continuing our work.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Patrick Brown Conservative Barrie, ON

Thank you.

Every year when we study supplementary estimates, I always have a question for Mr. Beaudet as well.

Could you share with the committee what types of investments we're seeing for neurological disorders? I know that CIHR has had a heavy emphasis on that, which is tremendously reassuring, but maybe you could share with us some of the work that's being undertaken now.

4:50 p.m.

President, Canadian Institutes of Health Research

Dr. Alain Beaudet

As you know, Canada is extremely successful in the area of neurosciences, mental health, and addiction. Actually we're talking about tobacco. We also have researchers known internationally for their work on the control of tobacco use.

Broadly, for the year 2009-10, if I remember properly, we've spent over $106 million in research in that field alone, and that's really covering all areas. As you know, we have a major focus on the dementias, particularly Alzheimer's-related dementia. We have major international strategies on that, whereby we're leveraging Canadian investments with those from various countries from Europe, as well as the U.S. and China. As you know, this government created with Brain Canada last year a special investment fund for neuroscience, which provides over a span of ten years a sum of $100 million, to be matched by $100 million of charity investments. That money will be invested for neurological disorders and the basis of neurological disorders.

Our intent obviously is to collaborate closely with Brain Canada to ensure that research in neuroscience and mental health continues to thrive in this country.