Health Committee on March 6th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you so much.

Mr. Strahl.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

How am I doing for time? Have I finished my seven minutes?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

You're out of time, Dr. Fry, but thank you for those good questions.

Mr. Strahl.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and Harold, and to the witnesses. This is certainly, as my colleague said, something that touches us all, and something I'm sure we could talk about for quite some time.

I'm going to focus on a couple of things, and make some comments, maybe. I think one of the keys, as we talk about mental health, is reaching out to people who perhaps are falling through the cracks. As much as we look inward here, people aren't likely to be following House of Commons debates, or going to read the report that comes out of the standing committee, or even the Mental Health Commission's report.

That's why I was so encouraged—again, as popular as Libby and Hedy may be in Vancouver—to see the Vancouver Canucks, and specifically one of the big rugged defencemen, Kevin Bieksa, promoting mindcheck.ca, which is a kind of tribute that the organization has launched as a result of the death of Rick Rypien. As a professional hockey player, you'd think he had everything going for him, but he took his own life after many years of struggling to overcome depression.

I just wanted to salute them and encourage people to check that out. It's pretty powerful to see them. You think of these professionals as being tough and having everything going for them. They lay it out there for Canadians and say, it doesn't mean you're weak. It doesn't mean you're not trying. Anyway, anyone who's seen that message will be very touched by it.

We talked about gatekeepers a little bit.

Harold, you and I share the same faith background. I say this with some trepidation, but I know one of the concerns I've had, as someone who is of the Christian faith, is that there are times when our leaders take away the physiological aspect of this, and where people I know have gone to their church leaders, and it's been, you're a little bit weak spiritually. The term that I've heard, even in non-religious circles, is about battling demons. I react very strongly to that. This is a medical condition, and often folks in every walk of life see it as something other than that.

I guess that brings me to my question. Another concern I have is that people who have a mental illness, at least the ones I've been close to, are constantly doing everything they can to get away from the medication. They've been diagnosed. They've been given treatment options. But as opposed to something like diabetes or high blood pressure, where you just say, I'm going to have to be medicated for that, I think there's this stigma where people are running away from the treatment options they've been given.

Perhaps someone could address this. Is that a problem? Is that widespread? Is that just something I've heard anecdotally? What is being done to educate people that you work as hard as you can, but for some folks, they just need to accept the fact that they're going to have to accept the help that's been given to them?

I'm sorry about that rambling intervention.

[Tana Nash]

Thank you for that. I was just going to make a couple of comments.

I really think it goes back, first, to the stigma. Using the medical example, diabetes or any other physical illness that requires us to take medication seems to be easier to swallow. We still need to continue to educate in our communities across Canada and get that message out there that it's okay, that this is an illness.

You're right. I think because of the stigma, people don't want to take medication. Sometimes it's because they don't want to admit that they have a mental health issue, because we kind of put it that way as Canadians. We need to say that it's okay. It's okay to have depression. You didn't ask to have depression, anxiety, or bipolar disorder, just as you didn't ask to have cancer or any other physical illness. We need to keep that message coming forward.

Just as a tie-in, because you were talking about that stigma, I'll give you an example. A high school in our region recently did a whole campaign in support of this bill. They decided to have a suicide prevention day and sign a petition for this bill, and just talk about it. The peer advisor that led this came to me and said that because of that day, four students came forward who said that they had been struggling with suicidal thoughts and that because we had made it open and possible for them to talk about it, they had now reached out to counselling and support and were getting the help they needed. There were four individuals, because we had that day of breaking down those stigmas.

I really think that's the first step.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Could I just make a comment about your notice about the public people who are being upfront about their struggle? You mentioned a player from Vancouver. I'll betray my age and say that Ron Ellis, a former teammate of Paul Henderson, also is very public about his struggle.

Back to your point about the issue of just over-spiritualizing, if I can use that word, I totally agree with you. I was very careful in the crafting of this bill to have it be one of the key components, which acknowledges the complexity of it. You and I know, and everyone around this table knows, that many theologians we look up to have been open about their struggles with depression. They did not over-spiritualize it in the sense that, yes, it is biological and psychological and physiological. Thank you for pointing that out.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you so much.

Thank you, Mr. Strahl.

We're now going to have to go on to the second round. We're going to have time, actually, for just one question in the second round, so that we can bring in all those other witnesses who are waiting so patiently to testify.

I will begin with Ms. Quach.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I appreciate the opportunity we have been given to delve deeper into the issue of suicide with the help of our witnesses.

I have a number of questions. I will start with Mr. Goldbloom and Mr. Albrecht.

In your strategy and your vision for the policy framework—

[Dr. David Goldbloom]

Forgive me, but I cannot hear you very well. Just a moment, please.

Okay, that's better.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

First of all, did you look at the possibility of working on social determinants of health as a way to reach to society's most disadvantaged and vulnerable populations? I am talking about isolation, poverty, housing difficulties and any other factors that might exacerbate depression or distress?

Second, did you look at the possibility of building on and promoting the efforts being made by streetworkers, those working at the ground level and who are very likely to come into direct contact with individuals experiencing problems that stem from social determinants of health?

[Dr. David Goldbloom]

I hope you won't mind if I answer in English.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Not at all.

[Dr. David Goldbloom]

Okay, thank you.

I think if you look at the At Home/Chez Soi project, it started with a group of Canadians who face the most extreme social deprivation. They are people who are living under bridges and are experiencing mental illness, substance abuse, extraordinary poverty, and profound social isolation. Our first major initiative in that regard, the $110 million the federal government gave us to fund the At Home/Chez Soi initiative, was a good example of how we can provide an innovative approach through housing to improve mental and physical health, and other manifestations of quality of life for people who have severe mental illness.

That project is now being replicated in France and is being studied around the world. I think there is also going to be learning from that for other Canadians, beyond the five cities. When we talk about mental health promotion and prevention, certainly within the context of the national strategy, the social determinants of health receive significant attention.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I would just like to respond.

The very essence of Bill C-300 is to utilize the good work that's already occurring on the front lines, whether it's the Waterloo Region Suicide Prevention Council, Canadian Association for Suicide Prevention, or myriad groups across the country that are already doing good work. The real heart of what Bill C-300 is doing is trying to bring these groups together, provide resources for them, and have them share what they're already doing so that the best practices can be shared. I think you've hit at the very heart of what my bill tries to do.

[Dr. David Goldbloom]

If I can add one comment, it is that most adult Canadians with mental illness are in the Canadian workplace, and that's why one of our foci has been the Canadian workplace.

We're about to release the standards for psychological safety in the Canadian workplace. This is unprecedented internationally. We're very good at providing people with helmets and steel-toed boots for physical safety in the workplace, but the reality is that, in our postmodern economy, it's our above-the-neck capacity that contributes to our productivity, and it's mental illness that creates profound disability and cost to the Canadian workplace and economy. So these psychological standards are going to be quite revolutionary when they come out very shortly.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Thank you.

I am going to hand the floor over to my colleague Dany Morin, who has a question for Mr. Goldbloom.

[Dany Morin, NDP, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Goldbloom, members of the GLBT community are known to have a higher risk of suicide than the general population.

Could you tell us about any strategies that you have put in place at the Mental Health Commission of Canada to target this specific population?

[Dr. David Goldbloom]

Thank you.

This is actually an identified subpopulation within the mental health strategy, precisely because of what you have identified, that this is a population we recognize to be at higher risk at certain vulnerable periods in their lives to depression, and to suicide.

Mary, I don't know if you want to comment at all about the acknowledgement of the LGBT community within the mental health strategy.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

I'm sorry, but we're out of time. Perhaps Dr. Morin could pick up on that question with our next group. We've gone a little bit over time, actually, so I think we'd better just hold it there.

I want to especially thank MP Harold Albrecht, who has brought this very important bill forward. It's an honour to have you on this committee. Thank you.

Thank you to all the people here. It is really heartening to hear about all the great work you're doing on this very important issue.

I'm going to suspend for one minute. For those of you in the audience, we have a very big panel coming next. I would ask two things of the committee, please. Any conversations you might want with the people who are sitting here, please do them outside the door. We're short of time. We have a very big panel coming on, and we want to make sure this bill is addressed properly.

I'm going to suspend for one minute and ask the new witnesses to come forward so that we can begin the testimony right away.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Can I just say thanks, Madam Chair, to the committee for giving this three full days of study? I really appreciate that. I'll say at the same time that it's going to move quickly into the next stages.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you.

The meeting is suspended.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

I would like to resume the committee meeting, so we have sufficient time to hear all our very important testimony from our witnesses.

I want to welcome the witnesses here today to speak on Bill C-300. We're very much looking forward to your very insightful wisdom.

From Health Canada, we have Ms. Kathy Langlois. Thank you. We have from the Public Health Agency of Canada, Ms. Marla Israel. Welcome. Via video, we have Ms. Janice Burke. Ms. Burke, can you hear me clearly?

[Janice Burke, Senior Director, Strategic Policy Integration, Department of Veterans Affairs]

Yes, I can. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Great. Thank you.

I must tell you this, as we're doing a video conference. You will be giving your presentation, but during the questions and answers, if you want to make a comment, please just raise your hand so I don't miss you, because we want to make sure we get all your input as well.

Ms. Janice Burke is with Veterans Affairs from Prince Edward Island, coming via video conference, of course. She's the senior director of strategic policy integration.

From the Correctional Service of Canada we have Ms. Jennifer Wheatley. Where's Ms. Wheatley? There you go. I can barely see your name over all these TVs. Welcome, Ms. Wheatley. You're the director general of mental health.

From the Department of National Defence, we have Colonel Rakesh Jetly, the mental health advisor. Welcome. We have Lieutenant-Colonel Suzanne Bailey, the national practice leader for social work and mental health training. Welcome, as well.

Colonel, will you be the one who is going to be giving the presentation?

[Col Rakesh Jetly, Mental Health Advisor, Directorate of Mental Health, Department of National Defence]

I'm giving the opening remarks.