Health Committee on March 15th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

We will begin now.

Today, pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, February 15, 2012, we're doing Bill C-300, an act respecting a federal framework for suicide prevention.

Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), consideration of the preamble and clause 1 is postponed.

(On clause 2—Framework)

We'll go to the first amendment, which is NDP-1.

Go ahead, please.

[Dany Morin, NDP, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I move that Bill C-300, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing lines 12 and 13 on page 2 with the following:

b) establishes a distinct national coordinating body for suicide prevention to operate within the appropriate entities in the Government of Canada and to assume re-

Although the Mental Health Commission of Canada does an excellent job, I am moving this amendment since unfortunately people also commit suicide for reasons that are not necessarily related to mental health. We might say that the Commission cannot cover all the reasons why someone might want to commit suicide. That is why there has to be a separate agency responsible for the prevention of suicide.

From the witnesses' submissions sent to us in our offices, we can see that there is a consensus for an independent agency other than the Mental Health Commission of Canada, one which would not have ties with the Commission. That is why I am moving this amendment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Dr. Morin, the clerk informs me that we can't admit this one. It concerns funding, so it's not appropriate.

I'm sorry about that.

[Dany Morin, NDP, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Perfect. Madam Chair, I realized this would require a royal recommendation, but since all the witnesses were unanimous regarding their needs and this bill, I still wished to move this amendment. I actually wanted it to enrich the debate and let the government know that that was the wish of the witnesses, including the Canadian Psychiatric Association. It is an independent organization. It might be interesting to keep this idea in mind for later.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Fair enough.

Dr. Carrie.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

I was just going to bring that forward, so thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you.

Ms. Davies.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

First of all, just on the amendment, I do remember that when we had the witnesses here, particularly the national association of suicide prevention centres, they felt very strongly that there needed to be a separate national coordinating body. I remember asking the question.... My initial thought was, “Why wouldn't this be within the Mental Health Commission? They're doing this kind of work.” But I remember they were quite clear about it needing to be a particular coordinating body. I think that flowed from UN recommendations and guidelines.

Given what the legislative clerk has said, I'd like to move a subamendment that would make the amendment read as follows:

establishes a distinct national coordinating body for suicide prevention to operate within the Mental Health Commission of Canada

—so it would be within their funding and within their envelope—

in the Government of Canada and to assume re-

I would make that a friendly subamendment, if the mover agrees, and I believe it would probably be in order then.

[Dany Morin, NDP, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

I accept.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

We will need that in writing, the clerk tells me.

Dr. Carrie.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Whenever you set these things up, it does usually require extra funds, so I think it would be outside the scope.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Actually, it is outside the scope in terms of the funding, I've been informed as well. So I don't think it's possible—

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Could I get an opinion from the legislative clerk on that, please?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

I'm sorry, Ms. Davies. I've been informed that we can't put it in the bill because it's forming a new body, and it does include funding, so that can't be accepted.

We'll go to amendment Lib-1.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Madam Chair, based on what the legislative clerk said, we ran all of our amendments through the Library of Parliament and they did say this one might require royal assent. I think we'll remove it. But I just wanted to say that I also ran it by Mr. Albrecht, and he has agreed with it. He said, though, that the amendments that would require royal assent couldn't stand.

I wanted to make that my preamble to any of the amendments I'm bringing forward.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you.

Would you like to move amendment Lib-2?

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

I'd like to move that amendment Lib-1, which is what we're dealing with, be taken off.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

It's not admissible. I just told you that, so we'll go on to amendment Lib-2.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Oh, you're going on to amendment Lib-2—sorry.

In Lib-2, I would like to add: "awareness and knowledge about and training on suicide".

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Dr. Carrie.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

First of all, I want to thank my colleague for putting this forward. The goal of Mr. Albrecht and everybody here is to get something put forward promptly.

This would involve training, which would involve more resources. There would be additional resources and it would transcend the scope of the bill.

Could we get a comment on that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Yes, Dr. Carrie is right.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

I asked the Library of Parliament, and they told me which ones would require royal assent, and this one did not.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Oh, that's fine. Go ahead.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

As to whether or not some things require royal assent, what we just dealt with reads: “designates the appropriate entity within the Government of Canada”. Do we know if that requires a royal recommendation or not? Why wouldn't it?

Obviously there's some function that has to be carried out. I'm just concerned about a contradiction. On the one hand, we're saying if a coordinating body were set up within, and yet we're saying here that it “designates the appropriate entity within”. What's the difference?