Evidence of meeting #28 for Health in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was research.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

George Da Pont  Deputy Minister, Department of Health
Alain Beaudet  President, Canadian Institutes of Health Research
Krista Outhwaite  Acting Deputy Head and Associate Deputy Minister, Public Health Agency of Canada
Gregory Taylor  Deputy Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada
Bruce Archibald  President, Canadian Food Inspection Agency

May 15th, 2014 / 10:35 a.m.

Conservative

James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC

Thanks very much.

Continuing on the matter we were discussing earlier, prescription overuse of the proton-pump inhibitors, they estimate that 70% of the people taking these meds should not be. They shouldn't be taking them for heartburn. This is where the regulator's role is so important. If the patient is on a PPI, the evidence under the literature is a 40% to 275% increased risk—40% to 275%—and it's dose-dependent and time-dependent. I think you'd see that as what was found in the DSEN report, Drug Safety and Effectiveness Network. Although they didn't give the numbers, that's on the FDA website.

Further, if they're on those meds, not only do they have increased risk of infection, but they also have three times the risk of the worst complications, which includes unnecessary bowel surgery. Of course, extended hospital stays are costing us hundreds of millions of dollars across the country. But also the research shows that if they're on those medications, not only is there an increased risk of infection and increased risk of complications, they also have five times the increased risk of death. That's the worst outcome. So I hope you understand the urgency I attach to that.

The number one thing on your Public Health Agency website is “elderly”, especially over age 80, but it's well known that the elderly have reduced stomach acid; it's part of the normal aging process, and puts them at a higher risk. It's really the same issue as acid suppression.

There's an immense urgency to taking some action on this. I hope you understand why, when we talk about CNISP, maybe it was designed for surveillance, but we should be collecting data on this. We can't wait another 10 years to start helping people avoid these risks of unnecessary death in the hospital and hundreds of millions of dollars in expenditures. We're hoping to be more nimble as we look at ways at innovating.

There are big concerns about antibiotic overuse. Of course, the risk of recurrence if you're on a PPI when you're in the hospital is 42%. With vancomycin, I think it's 25%; and in the new drug DIFICID it is 15%.

Back to Dr. Beaudet, this why there is urgency to check out prevention with the probiotic, and I hope you'll be on board in advancing that. If we can avoid these infections with such a simple thing, it's much easier than a fecal transplant, might I say, in managing it later on.

Finally, you're working with physicians, with CMA and with the Choosing Wisely Canada program, on this. They're talking about the appropriate use of medical imaging and antibiotic use. It seems to me, after my conversation with Dr. Chris Simpson, as my colleague mentioned, the head of the CMA, that this might be a way to help physicians engage with their patients on the unnecessary use of these meds for managing dyspepsia.

Could you comment briefly on that program, Choosing Wisely Canada?

Then I'll hand it over to my colleague.

10:40 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Libby Davies

There are just two minutes. Depending on how long the response is, we really won't have much time.

Who is giving the response?

10:40 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Health

George Da Pont

I don't think there is a response. As you've just noted, we are working with the CMA, and, through them, the colleges, on Choosing Wisely, which is intended to put into the hands of physicians more information and education on prescribing practices.

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC

I hope you'll agree, Mr. Da Pont, that it starts with the appropriate warnings from Health Canada, because the hospitals depend on those warnings, as do the doctors.

10:40 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Health

10:40 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Libby Davies

All right. Thank you very much.

First of all, thank you to—

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON

[Inaudible--Editor]

10:40 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Libby Davies

There is a minute left. Go ahead.

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON

In 2010 Eli Lilly was in court in the United States and was asked to produce any evidence that their drug, a powerful anti-psychotic, Zyprexa, helped Alzheimer's patients. They provided seven studies with no evidence.

Zyprexa and Johnson & Johnson's drug, Risperdal, are being used widely in our long-term care facilities on seniors for Alzheimer's, when there is no evidence it helps them at all. There is evidence, proven in court by their own studies, that those drugs, particularly Zyprexa, increase the risk of death for our seniors by 200% to 300%. Zyprexa causes diabetes. It also numbs out our seniors. They fall out of bed. They break a hip. They're dead six months later.

So our seniors in North America are literally—literally—dying in our long-term care facilities, taking a drug that offers them no medical benefit, but that—

10:40 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Libby Davies

Mr. Young the time is up, and we still have to vote.

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON

—increases their risk of death by 200% to 300%.

I just wondered if the Public Health Agency has any influence or can help with this problem.

10:40 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Libby Davies

We're seconds away; we still have to vote, and the other committee's beginning to show up.

10:40 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Health

George Da Pont

This probably would be with Health Canada, as the regulator. I'm not familiar with the issue you've raised. Perhaps, though, we can get back to you separately or through a letter to the committee.

10:40 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Libby Davies

Thank you, Mr. Da Pont. You can provide the information to the committee.

I'd like to thank the officials for being here today for the main estimates.

We will proceed directly to the votes. There are two ways to do this. We could go through each vote, and there are 10 votes. Or, if the committee concurs by unanimous consent, we could just go down to two votes, and I presume possibly go on division. It's up to the committee.

Is there agreement that we basically do the votes together?

Okay. Thank you very much. I don't see anyone objecting to that.

Shall the votes before the committee, less the amounts approved in the interim supply, carry?

CANADIAN INSTITUTES OF HEALTH RESEARCH

Vote 1—Operating expenditures..........$47,112,396

Vote 5—The grants listed in the Estimates..........$932,143,424

(Votes 1 and 5 agreed to on division)

HEALTH

Vote 1—Operating expenditures..........$1,774,856,975

Vote 5—Capital expenditures..........$31,656,363

Vote 10—The grants listed in the Estimates and contributions..........$1,683,745,108

(Votes 1, 5, and 10 agreed to on division)

PATENTED MEDICINE PRICES REVIEW BOARD

Vote 1—Program expenditures..........$9,949,348

(Vote 1 agreed to on division)

PUBLIC HEALTH AGENCY OF CANADA

Vote 5—Capital expenditures..........$6,100,596

Vote 10—The grants listed in the Estimates and contributions..........$253,014,798

(Votes 5 and 10 agreed to on division)

CANADIAN FOOD INSPECTION AGENCY

Vote 1—Operating expenditures and contributions..........$470,029,881

Vote 5—Capital expenditures..........$24,264,263

(Votes 1 and 5 agreed to on division)

10:40 a.m.

The Chair

Shall the chair report the main estimates to the House?

10:40 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

10:40 a.m.

An hon. member

On division.

10:40 a.m.

The Chair

Thank you very much to everybody.

10:40 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Libby Davies

The meeting is adjourned.