Evidence of meeting #28 for Health in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was research.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

George Da Pont  Deputy Minister, Department of Health
Alain Beaudet  President, Canadian Institutes of Health Research
Krista Outhwaite  Acting Deputy Head and Associate Deputy Minister, Public Health Agency of Canada
Gregory Taylor  Deputy Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada
Bruce Archibald  President, Canadian Food Inspection Agency

10:15 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Libby Davies

Thank you, Dr. Taylor.

10:15 a.m.

Deputy Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dr. Gregory Taylor

We're well prepared.

10:15 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Libby Davies

All right.

Mr. Lizon.

May 15th, 2014 / 10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Wladyslaw Lizon Conservative Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Again, welcome and thank you for coming here today.

On prescription drug abuse and misuse, one of the issues that we deal with and that I think should be addressed more strongly is the safe disposal of not only prescription drugs but prescription drugs in particular. Last Saturday I had a chance to attend the community event organized by the Peel Regional Police. It's a great day of fun where they show equipment and show the way they work. I always, when I have a chance, want to brag about the local police. It's a great police force. But one of the things they were doing was collecting unused prescription drugs. I don't know how much they collected. They did this last year as well. It's part of the initiative supported by the chiefs of police.

What advice would you have on how we can raise awareness? I think there are still too many people who think that you can just simply throw this in with your trash, or flush it down the toilet or down the sink. I know if you check different websites you can find instructions on which ones you can, which ones you cannot, but nobody reads this.

My simple question is this: should part of the labelling state how to safely dispose of it? This could be a simple “Don't throw it away with the trash”.

Perhaps you can expand on that and elaborate on it.

10:20 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Health

George Da Pont

Well, that an interesting idea. You mentioned national take-back day, and actually this year there were many, many more sites. It's expanded significantly. I actually checked yesterday to see if we have the stats yet of how much was collected, but they're still being compiled. I would expect it will be significantly better than last year.

One of the key things the minister mentioned in her remarks around prescription drug abuse was that among the things being done and contemplated with the new investment that was in the 2014 economic action plan is more emphasis on education, from the perspective of both educating physicians on prescribing practices and educating the public on the dangers of prescription drug abuse. I think an interesting idea is whether we should look at more information on safe disposal.

I don't know, Dr. Taylor, if you had anything to add.

10:20 a.m.

Deputy Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dr. Gregory Taylor

I'd be delighted to add to that.

I think the drug take-back day is very positive. I would worry a little bit that by having it focused by the police this would be seen as a little bit punitive by folks. We've been working with some of the drugstores, as I mentioned earlier—Shoppers for many years has had a policy that they will always take back drugs—putting a positive spin on it: it's not abuse, but just get rid of that stuff, because there's inadvertent misuse of drugs like that.

When we did the announcement at Shoppers for the day last Saturday, I had a chance to talk to some of the executives. They collect hundreds of tonnes of drugs. They dispose of it more appropriately so it's not being flushed down and released into the environment. My understanding now is that more and more drugstores will take them back. Certainly for Canadians, I can relate to this; when my mother died I had bags of drugs. What would I do with them? I walked down to the local pharmacy and asked what I could do with them, and they were delighted to take them back.

It's about having the pharmacist play an educational role with patients who've been prescribed drugs, that when you have unused drugs, just bring them back to us, and with the children of elderly parents, who accumulate a lot of drugs, that this is a very safe place, no questions asked, just bring the stuff back and we'll get rid of it.

I think it's a really important issue that you're bringing up, that we, as Canadians, need to encourage people to get rid of the stuff. It's bad for the environment; it can be misused. Earlier, one of the members said that children do this for parties, but a lot of elderly folks don't know what drugs they have or why they would take that, particularly folks with early dementia. So getting rid of those is just a really good way to reduce the risks to a lot of Canadians.

10:20 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Libby Davies

Mr. Lizon, you have 45 seconds.

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Wladyslaw Lizon Conservative Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON

Quickly on the same topic, when we were doing the studies, one issue that was brought before the committee was that with prescription drug misuse or abuse there is a problem of inadequate training of doctors.

Can you comment on this?

10:20 a.m.

Deputy Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dr. Gregory Taylor

At one of the round tables the minister mentioned, which I was at, and the president of the Canadian Medical Association and several other physicians were at, there were some pain control specialists present. They are very keen to change and produce better guidance for doctors when they're prescribing.

As a physician myself, when I used to prescribe things there was precious little guidance concerning pain medication. I think it's very important that specialists help some of the general practitioners. The CMA is very much dedicated to doing that.

10:20 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Libby Davies

Thank you, Dr. Taylor.

We'll now go to Dr. Fry for five minutes.

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC

Thank you.

I want to pick up on a question that was asked earlier. I'm asking about infant mortality rates.

It has been quoted that, for a country with a high socio-economic status among our peer groups in the OECD, our infant mortality rates are shockingly high.

How do we account for that, and what is being done to deal with it?

10:20 a.m.

Deputy Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dr. Gregory Taylor

My understanding is that there are methodological issues with the OECD study and that our methodology wasn't the same as theirs. Looking at the methodology we've been using, the rates have not done that.

We're working hard to figure out what was wrong in terms of the OECD, but primarily that comparison is not valid because of methodological issues in tracking.

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC

Yes, but instead of also wondering why and checking up on whether or not the OECD has used the right methodology, since a methodology ranks everyone according to the same methodology the question is whether anyone has tried to find out why the rate is so high or why it could possibly be so high and to find out ways to deal with this instead of just blaming the investigator.

10:25 a.m.

Deputy Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dr. Gregory Taylor

We're not blaming the investigator. The actions are based on evidence. Our evidence doesn't support that study's findings. Our evidence suggests that infant mortality rates are still good.

We have a number of children's programs—CAPC, Aboriginal Head Start—that are targeted to improve children and infant mortality.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC

Well, we agree to disagree, because we also use OECD rankings, when Canada does well, to shout from the rooftops how well we're doing; yet when it shows that we're not doing well, there isn't that kind of critical thinking that asks why this is so.

Even if the methodology is in question in this particular instance, why is this so, is there any truth, and what can we do to deal with it? We know that some of those rates are attributed to aboriginal infant mortality rates and we know that poverty and lack of housing are really big issues.

This is a shameful blot on Canada's record, and I would like to hear that the ministry of health and the Public Health Agency are looking at causes and at solutions. Health is more than just research; it's more than just what numbers say. It's about the lives of people in this country. I would like to see some more due diligence done on this.

Thank you.

10:25 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Libby Davies

You have two minutes left.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC

Okay, thank you.

I noticed that the minister spoke about a strategy for making labelling more easily readable by the public. I think that's a good thing, so I commend her for that and I commend you for it. But I want to know why there is still resistance, despite advisory committees and advisory groups, to mandatory labelling of salt and sugar and with regard to certain foods that we know are unhealthy. People aren't able to determine, when they read the label, how much salt and how much sugar they're getting, and how much trans fat.

Why is it that we do not look at international guidelines for the amount of sugar and trans fats? We have twice the amount of salt that any other country has. Why is this not part of the new labelling regime?

10:25 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Health

George Da Pont

Actually, it is part of the new labelling regime and of the consultations the minister was talking about. It's not just on making it more readable; it's also on the content.

One thing that has come out in the early round of consultations is exactly what you said: capturing things such as sugar better. So it's both the content of the label and the readability. It's quite broad.

Concerning guidelines, we are obviously working with the World Health Organization, which as I'm sure you know has started a broader process on consultations about appropriate guidelines for sugar. On that, we are basing our guidance on science, and this is one of the mechanisms.

As you know, I'm sure, sodium, trans fat, and sugar are currently all on the nutritional food table.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC

Are they mandatory? You were told that they should be seven years ago and it has not been done. That's my question.

10:25 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Health

George Da Pont

My understanding is they are mandatory.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC

They're not mandatory.

10:25 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Libby Davies

Thank you very much.

A welcome to Mr. MacKenzie for coming to our committee today.

Mr. MacKenzie, you have five minutes.

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the panel for being here.

I'm not a regular member of the committee, but it's interesting for me to sit in.

One of the things that I know in life is if we don't put money into research and innovation, we keep doing the same things over and over with the same results, and I think health care has been one of those things where innovation and research have led us to great advances in many things. Some of the research and the innovation is actually from our own country and we should be very proud and yelling from the rooftops about it. When I look at some of these things from a pure layman's perspective, laparoscopic surgery, cataract surgery, all of those things are now meaning fewer hospital stays for patients. That has to be good for everybody.

It would seem to me that more money in research and innovation is far better than just throwing money into the system expecting the same results. I welcome what the minister has said here. I am just convinced that this is the right approach to take. More money doesn't fix a bad system. We need the innovation and research to do that, and I think you're on that path.

I would just say one little thing, Dr. Taylor: the police aren't punitive. Having said that, I understand a wise person's panel has been struck by the minister. Can you tell us how that is moving forward? What can we expect going forward with some of the things from that panel?

10:30 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Health

George Da Pont

My expectation is that the minister will be making an announcement around that very topic in the near future.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON

Okay. I thank you.

The another area that we see frequently, certainly in my home province of Ontario, is that money in health care has not necessarily gone to health care. The federal government does not have controls over the province in the administration of delivery of its health care system. When we look at what we could do with innovation and research with money, how do we better work together with our provinces on the delivery, which is their responsibility? How do we better work with them to try and provide some direction or guidance?