Evidence of meeting #24 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was candidate.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Marc Mayrand  Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Stéphane Perrault  Senior General Counsel and Senior Director, Legal Services, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer

11:40 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Marc Mayrand

It was my decision to appeal, given that the issues that were being raised touched the overall scheme of the legislation.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK

Right. Specifically, was that the in and out? Which appeal are we talking about?

11:40 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Marc Mayrand

We're talking about both appeals. They raised significant issues that touch upon the overall scheme of the legislation.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK

Okay. I would appreciate it if you could get back, perhaps by the end of the meeting, or if that's not giving you enough time, at some time you could inform the clerk as to the amount of money you've spent on the appeal process so far.

11:40 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Marc Mayrand

On both cases.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK

Okay.

One specific question that you deal with in your report is on page 5, where you're making a recommendation under financing that a candidate who files an electoral campaign return late forfeit a portion of the nomination deposit--that's recommendation II.9. I don't have any issue with that. I am wondering, however, whether there are any exceptions to that. Does a candidate have an appeal process to go through? In other words, there may be a legitimate reason why a campaign has been late in filing. Do you have any kind of appeal process so that if there were a legitimate reason that prevented the campaign or the candidate from filing in the prescribed time, they wouldn't be subject to the sanction?

11:40 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Marc Mayrand

That's the change that's being proposed. Currently, the candidate would have to apply to court to get an extension of time. We're making two things here--

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK

So they don't get an extension. The sanction you're recommending would take place.

11:40 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK

That's fine, thank you.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

Thank you.

Monsieur Laframboise.

11:40 a.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I obviously have several questions. I am going to ask them in the order in which they were presented.

My first question relates to custody of ballot boxes, which is dealt with in recommendation 1.7. You are recommending that the returning officer be authorized to recover ballot boxes left in the custody of a deputy returning officer, because the act currently states that custody is the responsibility of the deputy returning officer.

I think it's appropriate that you are making this recommendation because, as you know, some ridings extend over several kilometres. Sometimes, you may even have to travel hundreds of kilometres between polling stations. Are you able to handle that and recover the ballot boxes?

11:40 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Marc Mayrand

In exceptional cases, we will have to take appropriate measures. The recommendation is intended to give the returning officer a certain amount of discretion so that, depending on the nature of the riding, he can ask that the ballot boxes be returned to a central location. He needs that discretion because of geography in the different locations.

Under this recommendation, the returning officer would also be authorized, in special circumstances and if he deems it appropriate, to order staff that have custody of the ballot boxes to return them and make that material available to the RO.

11:45 a.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

That may cause some confusion. We all know that when there are incidents, the media report them. In certain cases, that will mean that the returning officer has custody of the ballot boxes, and in other cases, it will be the deputy returning officer. It clearly will not be easy to take a position on this.

In my opinion, there must be a determination as to whether the returning officer or deputy returning officer has this responsibility. I have no problem with the idea of assigning it to the returning officer, and I agree with your recommendation. However, one aspect of this is problematic. You say that in some cases, it might be the returning officer, whereas in others, it would be the deputy returning officer. That is not something that could be easily defended on the ground.

11:45 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Marc Mayrand

That's correct. However, what is proposed in the recommendation is not that different from the current regime in provinces all across Canada. It grants a certain amount of discretion with respect to custody of the ballot boxes, particularly those used for advance polling. The general rule proposed here is that custody of the ballot boxes continue to be the responsibility of election staff, but on occasion, the returning officer may ask to recover the boxes prior to the vote count. In any case, it will depend on the circumstances, on the risks involved and the specific situation.

The general rule is that, more often than not, ballot boxes will continue to be in the custody of election staff, as they always have been. This recommendation is really intended to avoid an amendment to the act, something we had to do in the last election. I had no choice but to adjust the legislation to be able to recover the ballot boxes, which ultimately caused problems.

11:45 a.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

I see.

Recommendation 1.8, which deals with protection of personal information, proposes that the date of birth be removed from the lists of electors. We know that the Commissioner has made comments in that regard, but where elections are concerned, only the deputy returning officer is aware of the date. As far as we are concerned, it's a question of security.

Have you considered the possibility of showing only the year of birth? We can imagine a scenario where someone was born in 1940, but a different person appears instead. We can all imagine this happening. I understand that people are sensitive about their date of birth, but for the deputy returning officer, it's a way of ascertaining whether or not the person standing in front of him is the right person.

11:45 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Marc Mayrand

That is an option the Committee may want to consider. However, we have reviewed the situation as a whole. The deputy returning officer has two pieces of ID in front of him—such as a driver's licence—which reflect the data that appears on the voters' list. In our opinion, the birth date doesn't really add anything in terms of allowing staff to identify voters.

11:45 a.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

On the other hand, if the year of birth appeared, that would at least--

11:45 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Marc Mayrand

If you have a driver's permit with your picture on it, as well as your name and address, I'm not sure the date of birth… I think it could put election staff in a very difficult position. Just imagine the scene: a DRO sees a voter, his picture and address—the same information as on the list—but she is not convinced that the person standing in front of her is the right one because of the voter's age! Because of that problem and privacy-related risks, I think it would be wiser to--

11:45 a.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

Have you already encountered problems? The DRO has access to this information but doesn't keep any of it. Has this been a problem in the past?

11:45 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Marc Mayrand

You referred to the report released by the Privacy Commissioner, who relates certain problems in that regard and talks about the need to consider an amendment.

11:45 a.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

Yes, but that's because she did a comprehensive analysis of privacy issues. But have you yourself received complaints from voters who told you that election staff had used the birth date? You've never received any complaints about that, have you?

11:45 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Marc Mayrand

No, fortunately we have not, but this provision is intended to remove that risk.

11:45 a.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

I understand, but the date of birth has been used for quite a long time now. If there has never been any abuse or fraudulent use, it seems to me that--

11:45 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Marc Mayrand

No, it hasn't been that long. It was introduced into the legislation in 2007. There has only been one election where the date of birth was used.