Evidence of meeting #50 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

William V. Baker  Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety
Doug Nevison  Director, Fiscal Policy Division, Economic and Fiscal Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Ned Franks  Professor Emeritus, Department of Political Studies, Queen's University, As an Individual

10:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

I would never do that to you, sir, never.

Let's finish your time.

10:55 a.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Mr. Chair, I would like a simple answer to my question. Are there any costs that do not appear in the document because the information constitutes a Cabinet confidence? That is a simple question.

Are there any costs or explanations that do not appear in the document, yes or no?

11 a.m.

Conservative

Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB

Mr. Chair, in response to that question, I can say that I'm not aware of any costs that are protected by cabinet confidence. This is all information that the officials had available to them. The officials have answered the questions in a fulsome way that responds to not only the letter but the spirit of the Speaker's ruling.

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

There are two minutes left, Mr. Martin.

11 a.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Thank you.

Is it your testimony then, Minister, that there was no other financial--

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

Mr. Martin, through the chair, please.

11 a.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Oh, come on. This is the first time I've ever seen that.

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

Well, it will prevent us from having arguments, so let's just try it.

11 a.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Through the chair, I would like to know if there is any financial information whatsoever associated with the costing of the crime bills that is being withheld from the committee by virtue of your calling it a cabinet confidence.

11 a.m.

Conservative

Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB

Well, Mr. Chair, all I can say is that the material that is here for you today to review along with--

11 a.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

You're not answering the question, Minister.

11 a.m.

Conservative

Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB

--many of the committee members is that this material--

11 a.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Mr. Chairman, the minister is not answering the question I've put to him.

11 a.m.

Conservative

Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB

This responds to the--

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

Just give him a chance.

11 a.m.

Conservative

Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB

--ruling of the Speaker in a fulsome way. It respects the letter and the spirit of the ruling. And I am--

11 a.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Could I ask, through you again, Mr. Chairman, is there any other financial advice or information you were given by cabinet memorandum associated with the whole cost of any of your crime agenda that you're withholding from the committee because you consider it to be a cabinet confidence?

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

Mr. Minister, please.

11 a.m.

Conservative

Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB

I can indicate I am not withholding any information.

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

There you go.

11 a.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Were you given any advice on these bills from Treasury Board, the Department of Finance, or the PCO?

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

I wasn't given any advice.

11 a.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

You're not the Speaker of the House. You're putting on airs here.

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

I am chair of the committee. Thank you for the respect, Mr. Martin.

11 a.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Okay. The cabinet memorandum had advice from the Department of Finance, Treasury Board, and the PCO. Was there any information given to you about the cost impact to the provinces in your consideration of any of these crime agenda bills?